We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Chop cup - learning material? (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
andrew_green
View Profile
New user
London
8 Posts

Profile of andrew_green
Hi everyone Smile

I've recently backed TCC's Chop Cup on Kickstarter and am excited to get practicing once it arrives; I've always loved the routines I've seen but have never explored it myself until now. In anticipation I've also bought WGM's - Chop Cup DVD but wanted to ask if anyone had any other recommendations or favourite routines they would recommend checking out?

Many thanks,
Andrew
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20661 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I would recommend that you forget watching other routines. You know how the prop works. Discover your own routine. Let the prop speak to you. Don't worry about about what others do or have done. If you take the time you can end up with a 100% original routine that is 100% you.

It is a rare opportunity you have.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ajb6864
View Profile
Special user
Europe
613 Posts

Profile of ajb6864
Great advice from Danny Doyle!

Also, deliberately think outside the norm.

A great example of this is Yann Frisch's FISM act. He would never have got to that finished routine if he had restricted his ideas to buying Michael Ammar's cups and balls videos (as good as they are).

Visualise the ideal routine in your head, without the boundaries of what has come before and then you can use previous works as reference to achieve most, if not all of it usually.

Kindest regards
Alan
warren
View Profile
Inner circle
uk
3363 Posts

Profile of warren
As said already great advice by Danny that's definitely the way to go.
andrew_green
View Profile
New user
London
8 Posts

Profile of andrew_green
That's a really good point Danny thanks and also too everyone Smile
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20661 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Thanks guys.

I may seem adamant about this but I think it is just missing from magic today.

You never get an opportunity to unsee or unknow something. You can't go back mentally to that state of mind and you end up with that burden.

I know a self taught guitar player from Australia. He never knew what a bass guitar was. The result was him thinking her had to add all those parts on his guitar. He has a style nobody can duplicate. Nobody bothered to tell hin he couldn't do it so he just did.

Watching others do things gives you a strange sense of what should be instead odd being creative.

Sorry rant over.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9126 Posts

Profile of funsway
Quote:
On May 15, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:

You never get an opportunity to unsee or unknow something.


I feel this also applies to learning from video in general. Yes, a video description of na effect can be valuable learning tool,
but, when your first experience with ANY experience on video, then your mind is forever biased to the "totality" rather then the incremental parts.

Consider that when you read a great novel, you can later see a movie allegedly based on the movie and still enjoy it - your mind placing differences in perspective.
But, when you see a movie first it is impossible to enjoy the novel. You do not get to form a mental image of a character - you only see the actor.

This problem is effecting education where video presentations now play a major part. Some schools are going back to an "incremental imaging" approach -
you, even comic books can be a better learning tool. The issue is not "visual" over reading, but embracing the total result first.

When you see a performance live, your mind also considers setting, lighting, distractions and the reason why you are there (expectations)
When you see a performance on video, the view is limited, selected by a cameraman and producer, and artificial in many ways.
You do not get to experience magic - you get to experience what a producer thought would be important.

rant ...

now, back to the theme of following instruction in the box or another person's routine.

You must mentally accept that what you learn about any effect/trick is someone else's opinion of how it should be performer. This is useful.
But, echoing Danny, you must not allow your personal innovation and creativity to be stifled.

Consider that any observer performance, instruction set (write or video) as an introduction of possibilities.

Nothing wrong with observing a dozen different presentations by others if it is viewed as a learning methodology -
just don't do it to "find the best one" to copy.

I have written several "chop cup" books that provide some alternatives to standard thinking. But, I would not suggest them to anyone
who has not performed a Chop Cup routine live many times. They are designed to prompt creativity, not teach method.

I even challenge the notion that a "weird final load" is necessary or even desirable. Heresy!

The point is that there is no "how to do chop cup" mandate or objective. If your objective is to create an experience of magic for your audience,
then ask "how can the use of a Chop Cup help me achieve my objective." There are are many "one cup" approaches other than standard Chop Cup that may be better.

It is also kind of scary when I find myself agreeing with Danny Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
jmathai1
View Profile
New user
Alexandria, Virginia
84 Posts

Profile of jmathai1
Joshua Jay sent out a great "study guide" on the topic of the Chop Cup in one of Vanishing Inc's newsletters which might be helpful for this discussion:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/newsle......l/2.html
John Mathai
Alexandria, Virginia
MaxfieldsMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Instead of practicing, I made
3009 Posts

Profile of MaxfieldsMagic
The TCC routine is great, but if you watched the full explanation from the Kickstarter video (not the basic one), you'll realize it's very angley. But it is a great example of thinking outside of the box. I've never seen another chop cup routine quite like it. Other than that, a good one to get you started might be the one in Tom Wright's Penguin lecture https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7991 The loads work especially well in a leather chop cup of the sort you'll get with the TCC project.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
Chris.Z
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of Chris.Z
Dan Tong
David Roth
Mark James
Don Allen
wzrduvahhs
View Profile
New user
New York, NY
3 Posts

Profile of wzrduvahhs
A friend of mine who has performed the Chop Cup routine for years claims that "banging" the cup on the surface just before making the final load aids in its misdirection. I've watched Don Alan do this on video, yet I've always thought the technique was unnatural, jarring, and out of place. The technique never seemed to detract from the final effect of surprise on the spectator, but I was just wondering what other perfomers thought. Comments?
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20661 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I spent many an hour with Don and this was his claim.

I think it is not needed.

I have used one for about 25 years and for me, and this is just an opinion, if you somehow need to "help" aid the misdirection by banging the cup on the table it might be time to work on your misdirection.

BUT with no context to see what he is referring to it is also pretty tough to put out a blanket statement of it being wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Aaron Smith Magic
View Profile
Inner circle
Portland, OR
1436 Posts

Profile of Aaron Smith Magic
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
I spent many an hour with Don and this was his claim.

I think it is not needed.

I have used one for about 25 years and for me, and this is just an opinion, if you somehow need to "help" aid the misdirection by banging the cup on the table it might be time to work on your misdirection.

BUT with no context to see what he is referring to it is also pretty tough to put out a blanket statement of it being wrong.


I thought that I was the only one who felt this way. Don Alan's routine is so good; I'm a huge fan of his work. The banging the cup on the edge of the table always seemed like you were drawing attention to the load. He did that routine for years and it definitely fooled many, many laymen--so it obviously works. It just always seemed to be a strange approach to loading a cup.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20661 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
To be fair his claim was it proved the cup was empty. I sat with him for more hours than I care to remember.

My position was simply picking up an inverted cup proved it was empty. No need for banging. Gravity is shunting everyone is familiar with so if you are pricing something at this point it is running with nobody chasing you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Macofchester
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of Macofchester
I have been doing the chop cup routine professionally for over 20 years - I have three bits of advice
1) use the bigger chop cups - ideally that can take a large lemon - much more impactful.
2)don’t get hung up on the loading of lemons into the cup - as the reveal of the ball/lemon on the table from under the cup means you have enough misdirection to drag an elephant under the cup ready for your next load,
And lastly 3) make the last reveal one that moves or jumps around - it gets a fantastic reaction and not one for the fainted hearted!
Good luck
obrienmagic
View Profile
Special user
705 Posts

Profile of obrienmagic
Anyone (besides funsway . He has sent me some awesome stuff already!) have any good chop cup material that doesn’t involve any gimmicks? Regular cup and ball moves only with borrowed items. I saw CHOP bu Craig Petty. Looks like some good magic but uses some gimmicks as well. Curious! I’m putting together a fun little routine with a flask and shot cup but it doesn’t have that UMPH that I am after.
Visit my online store at http://www.obrienmagic.com/magic-shop Smile
magic.99
View Profile
Regular user
148 Posts

Profile of magic.99
I purchased my TCC Leather Chop Cup on their Kickstarter. However, I have never received the promised instructions - anyone else have this same issue?
David Eichler
View Profile
Grammar Host
Durham, ME
1768 Posts

Profile of David Eichler
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2021, magic.99 wrote:
I purchased my TCC Leather Chop Cup on their Kickstarter. However, I have never received the promised instructions - anyone else have this same issue?


You can reach out to them on FaceBook. They are pretty responsive and will share the link to the basic video instructions.
TheAmbitiousCard
View Profile
Eternal Order
Northern California
13415 Posts

Profile of TheAmbitiousCard
Try to get a copy of John bannons routine.
It’s called chop2 in Impossibilia.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate,
Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder.
gregg webb
View Profile
Veteran user
391 Posts

Profile of gregg webb
Ron Wilson's routine from The Uncanny Scott.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Chop cup - learning material? (15 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL