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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Virtual Out Of This World by Adrian Lacroix (ZOOM MAGIC) (34 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Lonnie_Lyerla
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I actually tried to avoid answering that specific question because I believe it to be considered exposure. Itís a pretty key portion. But thatís my personal opinion and others may not share the same view. But thatís ultimately why I ended up leaving that part out.
Joe Roberts
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The spectator separates the cards before the start of the effect. It's something that the spectator does openly themselves and is part of the effect.

This isn't exposure, it's just a description of how the effect plays out.
Xcath1
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Itís tough. The most honest ad copy would have let the potential buyer know a little more about the process. I think itís tough with tricks like this. Experienced magicians know what must be the case and inexperienced magicians have to learn sometimes and many descriptions leave out something.
Sudo Nimh
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I stand by my posts. I was hoping that perhaps the creator had arrived at some other solution to this other than having the participant openly separate the cards before beginning when I initially took the plunge. I have numerous versions of OOTW and thought that surely he wasn't having them do this... or would he? And... he did. Call me crazy, but I think that having the cards openly separated allows the effect to be backtracked and exposes the method of OOTW and that simply performing the normal OOTW effect to a participant over live video is a much better choice. What he's really selling here, is the simple fact that the cards MUST be separated by the participant themselves before beginning. And that's it; because aside from that, it's just a fairly standard OOTW otherwise and there's really nothing new here whatsoever.

I know I can't be the only one who would be feeling great disappointment by this fact after purchasing it and feel like this release was aimed at the less experienced. I don't mean that as an offense, but this is my 40th year in this art, and honestly, this is not for me because I feel it moves the ball backwards and not forward. It was a waste of $10 for me.
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
strategus
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I stand by my posts. I was hoping that perhaps the creator had arrived at some other solution to this other than having the participant openly separate the cards before beginning when I initially took the plunge. I have numerous versions of OOTW and thought that surely he wasn't having them do this... or would he? And... he did. Call me crazy, but I think that having the cards openly separated allows the effect to be backtracked and exposes the method of OOTW and that simply performing the normal OOTW effect to a participant over live video is a much better choice. What he's really selling here, is the simple fact that the cards MUST be separated by the participant themselves before beginning. And that's it; because aside from that, it's just a fairly standard OOTW otherwise and there's really nothing new here whatsoever.

I know I can't be the only one who would be feeling great disappointment by this fact after purchasing it and feel like this release was aimed at the less experienced. I don't mean that as an offense, but this is my 40th year in this art, and honestly, this is not for me because I feel it moves the ball backwards and not forward.


True, it would be amazing to have a versions of OOTW that: 1) didn't involve separating the black/reds beforehand, 2) required no preparation, 3) could be performed remotely and spontaneously over a webchat, and 3) I could purchase as an instant download.

But I'd also expect to pay more than the cost of a fancy Starbucks drink for it.
Sudo Nimh
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That's not quite what I was getting at...

These methods actually DO exist. Just as an example right off the top of my head "My Way Out of this World" by Larry Hass for starters. The difference here is simply that the participant deals out the cards themselves, but the trade-off isn't worth it, in my opinion.
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
novasteeple
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I was hoping that perhaps the creator had arrived at some other solution to this other than having the participant openly separate the cards before beginning when I initially took the plunge. I have numerous versions of OOTW and thought that surely he wasn't having them do this...


Could you recommend another OOTW where the cards don't have to be separated by either the magician or the spectator? That sounds amazing.
Sudo Nimh
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Perhaps there was a mix-up in the messages. Smile

Try Hass's. It's great and works marvelously over live video as well; I've done it. It's a combination of UF Grant's "Nu Way OOTW" with a brilliant touch at the conclusion from Gary Ouellet. Yes, you will be dealing the cards out, but the participant can tell you where to place them without any "funny" business. You can also legit shuffle the deck AND show them well mixed (if you desire) before beginning.
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
jerdunn
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, strategus wrote:
True, it would be amazing to have a versions of OOTW that: 1) didn't involve separating the black/reds beforehand, 2) required no preparation, 3) could be performed remotely and spontaneously over a webchat, and 3) I could purchase as an instant download. But I'd also expect to pay more than the cost of a fancy Starbucks drink for it.


You might like R and B Phenomena by Inaki Zabaletta, which fulfills your criteria and more. It's sold as a stand-alone trick but he also teaches it on his Penguin Live Lecture. It's not only suitable for camera, but also for live parlor performances because the routine is designed for visibility; the cards aren't laid out on a tabletop.

The routine is super clean -- no separations, no odd displacements or displays -- and may just fool you. It got a big reaction even from the Penguin studio crowd.

Here's the Penguin link to the trick (out of stock temporarily but other dealers may have it): https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S18686

Cheers,
Jerry
strategus
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On Jun 2, 2020, jerdunn wrote:
You might like R and B Phenomena by Inaki Zabaletta, which fulfills your criteria and more. It's sold as a stand-alone trick but he also teaches it on his Penguin Live Lecture. It's not only suitable for camera, but also for live parlor performances because the routine is designed for visibility; the cards aren't laid out on a tabletop.

The routine is super clean -- no separations, no odd displacements or displays -- and may just fool you. It got a big reaction even from the Penguin studio crowd.

Here's the Penguin link to the trick (out of stock temporarily but other dealers may have it): https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S18686

Cheers,
Jerry


Thanks for the tip, Jerry. I'm intrigued and will check it out.

Although my closing sentence was my main point. I wasn't suggesting that these criteria could not be matched. But instead that the routine would cost more than $10 (which R and B does -- it's $40).

Maybe I should have just written, "you get what you pay for"? Smile

S.
Lonnie_Lyerla
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I stand by my posts. I was hoping that perhaps the creator had arrived at some other solution to this other than having the participant openly separate the cards before beginning when I initially took the plunge. I have numerous versions of OOTW and thought that surely he wasn't having them do this... or would he? And... he did. Call me crazy, but I think that having the cards openly separated allows the effect to be backtracked and exposes the method of OOTW and that simply performing the normal OOTW effect to a participant over live video is a much better choice. What he's really selling here, is the simple fact that the cards MUST be separated by the participant themselves before beginning. And that's it; because aside from that, it's just a fairly standard OOTW otherwise and there's really nothing new here whatsoever.

I know I can't be the only one who would be feeling great disappointment by this fact after purchasing it and feel like this release was aimed at the less experienced. I don't mean that as an offense, but this is my 40th year in this art, and honestly, this is not for me because I feel it moves the ball backwards and not forward. It was a waste of $10 for me.


I agree. And I completely respect your knowledge of the idea in general. You are not alone in thinking this could be back tracked. Since my last post, Iíve done this multiple times. And during one of those performances, a friend of mine happen to watch the video of me doing this to someone else and remembered when I performed for them the same effect. He was able to almost repeat the entire process minus the arrangement at the end. I do believe that this can and will be backtracked if the right person sees this more than once.
I guess the one of the older rules in magic would have to apply here in certain situations. ( never repeat the same trick in front of the same crowd )

Even though this is a possibility, I in no way feel like itís not worth the asking price. Too me, it is. As Sudo mentioned, there are other artists who have great alternative methods to achieve the same goal.




Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
The spectator separates the cards before the start of the effect. It's something that the spectator does openly themselves and is part of the effect.

This isn't exposure, it's just a description of how the effect plays out.



This is only my opinion and not meant to argue or create confrontation. I think the idea of exposure carries many different ways to do so . I still feel that that specific area about separating the colors can be considered such. I only say that because It is a direct requirement to perform this version/and many others but also, when you read the Ad copy on Penguin, it doesnít mention anything about the spectator separating the colors. And if I look at it in a way that challenges the ad copy, then it can be perceived that the ad wasnít completely upfront. But then thereís part of the method. So for me itís like a double edge sword. Technically itís just a card trick in the end. Again,This is only my opinion. All in all I am a very satisfied customer. And if anyone has any additional versions that can be performed online, Iíd be Interested in checking them out. Iíve come to really like the OOTW plot.
Sudo Nimh
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Good thoughts, Lonnie.

If you're growing a love for this plot, I would highly recommend getting the book "Best of All Worlds". It is back in stock at Penguin and I'd suggest jumping on it rather quickly before it's gone again. It's a fantastic book on the subject with dozens of various takes on the plot contributed from a wide collection of greats in our art in addition to some fascinating facts. I think it'll keep you happily occupied for a very long time. Smile

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2138

As for me, I've adopted Larry Hass's handling. My favourite version was UF Grants' (which was also preferred by Eugene Burger) and the one I had been using for ages. I was familiar with the Ouellet touch Larry incorporates at the finish with the Grant routine, but had completely forgotten about it and never thought about marrying the two together. It really is quite wonderful - and it's only $10. Grant's original (Nu-Way OOTW) may be had for a mere $3 over at lybrary.com, though, you will learn it if you pick up Larry's routine at Penguin.
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
Lichtagent
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Dear fellow-magi,

I think what some of you miss is the different premise of this effect when compared to a "classic" OOTW...

You start with a little test in dexterity and concentration and shift it to intuition - the magic happens at the very last moment - there is no need in trying to backtrack something, because it didn't start as "hey, let me show you a card-trick...!"
The more casual and fun you manage to transport the first part of this routine, the more baffling this will be.

Nearly all virtual methods have a moment of self-working algorithm or reproducible user-handling incorporated and thus they will certainly be backtrackable when reviewed on video.
And Adrian has really nice little, original touches in his routine so that it's worth the 10$ in my opinion.

As always - show it once - it's a miracle - show it twice - it's a lecture...

Stay safe and magic

Chris
Lacroix
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Here itís a new review by Roo
pabloinus
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Sudo and others, one thing that it is missing in your explanation is that after the separation, the spectator by himself mixed up the cards, which in their view and yours should destroyed the color stacking. So the perception that it could be backtracked to the first step, not sure it is completely accurate.

I think for $10, this trick provides good ideas, you could use the trick as explained and/or you could use his ideas for your card tricks, I disagree it is a waste of $
Arielhamui
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Sudo Nimh
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I simply said it was a waste of money for ME. I just don't think this is "good" magic - or at least, it's certainly not the type of memory I would like to leave my audiences with. This is simply too laborious and dull for my tastes.

I repeat: Just because one *can* do this version over video doesn't mean it's necessarily "good". In my opinion, this is mediocre. I'd rather focus on high-calibre and efficient material which expresses something much larger about the grand mysteries and wonders of life rather than doing sub-par effects for no other reason besides that of "I can" and because they are the newest "flavour of the week" items. I still maintain that performing a normal OOTW over video for folks is far more direct and just as effective.

If others are enjoying this - great! Have at it. This is just not for me; after 40 years in this art my goals are perhaps different and my tastes a little more discriminating.

There is much more to consider in this art other than simply just "fooling people".
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
Lacroix
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Sudo, we get the message: you donít like the trick, and you have been doing magic for 40 years.
I wish you good luck finding the grand mysteries and wonders of life, and sharing them (which by the way are not going to be sold or found in a magic store nor posted on the Cafť).
You may find some empathy too in that journey that may help you to communicate that in a better way.
And you may want to consider start discriminating the time you spent with this nonsense here and use it for something meaningful.
Best
Sudo Nimh
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Firstly, there are places you can find material (including some of my own) that *do* point to larger and more meaningful things and where the goal is moving beyond mere tricks.

Secondly, just because I express myself in a way that doesn't match your expectations doesn't mean I lack empathy. So knock it off with the silly implications.

When discussing magic and methods, I prefer to remain entirely objective. If you can't handle that someone doesn't like something you've put out without resorting to personal attacks, then perhaps you should be doing something else. If you honestly believe that having a participant openly setting up the deck before you begin is a good thing, then fine. But don't expect me to think the same when my age and experience knows better. I'm sorry, but I find it tedious and dull and it's really the only thing you're bringing to the table with this release.

I haven't expressed any thoughts about what I may think of *you personally* or your abilities/attributes so I don't see why you feel the need to go down that road with me.
There is a road - no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow; that path is for your steps alone.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Virtual Out Of This World by Adrian Lacroix (ZOOM MAGIC) (34 Likes)
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