The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Crime reporting » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8964 Posts

Profile of funsway
I haven't voice opinion of late, and do not expect many to support my view here ...

the entire circumstance and reactions to an arrested man dying in custody might be rightful cause for demonstration and protest, but ..

This morning news claimed "hundreds of protestors arrested in New York.' Wrong reporting only adding fuel to the fire.

I challenge anyone to show where a single person was arrested for exercising their First Amendment right to peaceable assemble and voice their opinion.

No, these people were rioters, arrested for breaking the law - committing acts of destruction of private property, acts or threats of violence against another.
Worse crime of all is looting. Some ancient cultures would execute looters on the spot. Maybe a good idea.

Looting has NOTHING to do with any protest or message in support of any cause. Certainly not about a death in another State. Not about race or poverty either.
It is about greed and opportunism. It is a crime against my guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed.

And our news media treats such crimes as "normal reactions" sugar coated as "protest." Murder is wrong. Vandalism is wrong. Assault against another is wrong.

At least get the reporting correct. People are being arrested for breaking the law. How those police officers and looters and thugs are judged and held accountable
is matter for our courts, not news reporters.

I will always support another person's right to protest what they believe to be a wrongful act or attitude.

I will challenge any act of violence or destruction or deliberate misinformation.

This post is protest.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16203 Posts

Profile of tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16203 Posts

Profile of tommy
Protest; from pro, before and + testari, testify. A protest was normally a verbal complaint made before the public. But today we have things called protest marches and so on from the American civil rights days. So it went from words to actions. Now we have protest riots and so on, which is all a far cry from the original meaning of protest. I think we will have to learn to live with it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I'm with you up until you seemingly overstate the part about your "guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed".

I'm fairly certain those rights are not enshrined anywhere in any document from our founders.

I understand what you are expressing, and in sentiment am in agreement. But we can't just make things up and hold society to them either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16203 Posts

Profile of tommy
The main media normally try to paint every protester as a criminal, rather than the other way around. When a few people burn a building down that is big news. A peaceful protest is not news but they get tarred with the same brush by ignoring them. Also what we have in these situations are agitators who are sometimes police infiltrators. Things are not always what they seem to be. Personally I would not join any group of protesters or the like, because you do not know what you are getting into.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5018 Posts

Profile of landmark
Ken, I take issue with a lot of the assumptions, omissions, and statements in your post, but unfortunately, past experience here shows that it's very difficult to have a coherent discussion on a matter like this on the Café and not get it shut down. So I'll just leave it at that. I disagree.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8964 Posts

Profile of funsway
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm with you up until you seemingly overstate the part about your "guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed".



just my spin on "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" I guess.

part comes from "Freedom from fear is listed as a fundamental human right according to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. On January 6, 1941, United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt called it one of the "Four Freedoms" at his State of the Union, which was afterwards therefore referred to as the "Four Freedoms Speech."

Yup, probably overstated relative to what most folks feel. Maybe some will pay attention. No violence though. No one has that right.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
R.S.
View Profile
Loyal user
CT one day I'll have
201 Posts

Profile of R.S.
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, funsway wrote:
Worse crime of all is looting. Some ancient cultures would execute looters on the spot. Maybe a good idea.


Seriously?? You can't think of any crime worse than looting? And executing them on the spot may be a "good idea"? For Pete's sake we don't even execute rapists or murderers "on the spot." Arrest and jail the looters for sure, but suggesting we simply kill them on the spot is beyond the pale.


Quote:
Murder is wrong. Vandalism is wrong. Assault against another is wrong.


Yes indeed. But they are not all equal.

And this article presents another interesting twist to the protests:
https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-r......macists/

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, landmark wrote:
Ken, I take issue with a lot of the assumptions, omissions, and statements in your post, but unfortunately, past experience here shows that it's very difficult to have a coherent discussion on a matter like this on the Café and not get it shut down. So I'll just leave it at that. I disagree.


Yea.

BUT just so it is said I am just appalled that racism or any bigotry against others based on superficial issues and not content of character happening in 2020 is just SO TOUGH for me to get a handle on intellectually. I am IN NO WAY saying it does not happen! Oh lord no. But the fact that it DOES happen is just beyond my ability to reason out.

I will try to relate this story and keep in boundaries. I think the point is important. I have a friend who is a person of color. We were driving in Mississippi from one club to another and got pulled over by a State Trooper. Well the dismissive language he used to speak to my friend, who was driving, and the way this started to go was outright scary. I'm not kidding I was wondering if we might end up in a ditch. It is a MUCH longer story with all sorts of colorful language but suffice as to say it was scary for me.

Here is the issue. I am a white dude. I lived with this sort of thing for about 15 minutes. Yea real fear, but NOT 24/7. I am NOT trying to make excuses for ANYTHING done by ANYONE, and believe me with my cop background I get what is happening on each side. But to live in fear is not living. Of course nobody should riot and loot. I don't think this is the point even the looters and rioters are making. I justify nothing happening and condemn the murder of another human being.

All I wanted to do was add perhaps a slight bit of perspective is all. Not argue right/wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, funsway wrote:
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm with you up until you seemingly overstate the part about your "guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed".



just my spin on "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" I guess.

part comes from "Freedom from fear is listed as a fundamental human right according to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. On January 6, 1941, United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt called it one of the "Four Freedoms" at his State of the Union, which was afterwards therefore referred to as the "Four Freedoms Speech."

Yup, probably overstated relative to what most folks feel. Maybe some will pay attention. No violence though. No one has that right.


Yea that is why we don't get our "own spin" on our rights. They are quite specific and detailed.

No violence is absolutely correct.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16203 Posts

Profile of tommy
Isn’t that what the protest is about; police killing people for nothing?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16203 Posts

Profile of tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Lost on a Green Screen
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you ~ The Human Race ~




`sigh...
Image
Life's like a movie, write your own ending...
Tim Snyder
View Profile
New user
Chicago, IL
91 Posts

Profile of Tim Snyder
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Animated Puppets wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you ~ The Human Race ~
`sigh...


Which is why I shake my head at the idiots who talk about colonizing Mars. If we can't get along on this planet with its fairly plentiful resources, how can any intelligent person believe there can be any semblance of justice/democracy on Mars with its non-existent resources. Mars will be a hellish dictatorship.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6750 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Animated Puppets wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you ~ The Human Race ~




`sigh...

No such thing.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Tim Snyder wrote:
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Animated Puppets wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you ~ The Human Race ~
`sigh...


Which is why I shake my head at the idiots who talk about colonizing Mars. If we can't get along on this planet with its fairly plentiful resources, how can any intelligent person believe there can be any semblance of justice/democracy on Mars with its non-existent resources. Mars will be a hellish dictatorship.


So little will change.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8964 Posts

Profile of funsway
[quote]On May 31, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:

Yea that is why we don't get our "own spin" on our rights. They are quite specific and detailed.

/quote]

It is interesting that you took my phrase "guaranteed freedom" and 'put the spin on it'
of "document of our founders." We have many legal guarantees not mentioned in documents drafted by our founders,
and certainly "founders" includes others than signers of specific documents.

This includes letters and documented speeches by members of Congress related to the creation of the Bill of Rights. Interesting read.

However, one document includes the words, " that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

Not very specific at all! It certainly states there are other rights not mentioned in that document. (not detailed)

I reserve the right to decide what "happiness" means for me, and the "pursuit" of same. That is not a "spin."

Yes, my "life" is probably more threatened by a person breaking the law by driving with a cellphone than a bigot looting in a distant city,
but it is a threat to my happiness just the same. I have experiences similar to your story on the "racial bias" side,
and others about excessive actions by police. I am appalled by both - even ashamed for humanity.

Was I more affected as to "violation of rights" when they happened to me, or when I observed the violation of other people?

Once, in a classroom setting, I was relating how I had saved a man's life. One student asked about the man's color.
This shocked me more than the horrors of the event. Even worse, no other student seemed to find the question terrible
or were afraid to say anything for fear of being bullied.

Given the apparent class attitude, how was I to respond? Prejudice may be natural to humans. Bigotry is learned.

I stand by my right to feel threatened and fearful back then and now.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Lost on a Green Screen
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
Quote:
I reserve the right to decide what "happiness" means for me, and the "pursuit" of same.


Those looters looked pretty happy to me and appear to have pursuit'ed as well...
Image
Life's like a movie, write your own ending...
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8964 Posts

Profile of funsway
Difference is, Anima - is that I don't physically harm others, damage property and break the law.

If that distinction escapes you, I am even more saddened.
all personal rights must be mediated by respect for the rights of others in a society.

this concept is embodied in every culture as some form of the "golden rule" or even "an ye do no harm."

I will allow that you are just making an ironic joke as a way of masking your pain and revulsion.
but some may take your statement seriously, and take it as permission to violate someone else.

Is that what you desire - support of violence and lawlessness, even in jest?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Lost on a Green Screen
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
It's not us... it's them.
It's not our guys... but those guys.
It's not me... it's you.


My point is that there isn't any us nor them, ours or theirs, or you or me.

I avoid watching the news. It elevates my blood pressure too much. Unfortunately, I have a Facebook account and have seen the videos. I think when I turn 55 I'll reward myself by leaving FB, but I digress...

When I saw the video of the looters I thought..."If that was my store I would be shooting every looter (even the pregnant woman) and follow them out to their car and redecorate the upholstry..." but, that is the beast in me. *

I would feel justified because the cops failed to stop them and forced my hand to protect (pursuit & happiness) my business and my God given rights. BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

Let me throw in a straw man....

You're walking along in your nice shoes (you decide the style/make) and a kid jumps out with a gun and says "Give me your shoes!" You say "Huh?" the kid then shoots you and takes your shoes.

Too completely different situations right? But in the end, both get killed over a pair of shoes.

I'm not saying you wanted to shoot the looters, nor am I asking. I'm just (poorly) trying to share a revelation.

I have no solution, but there isn't any us... or them...
Image
Life's like a movie, write your own ending...
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Crime reporting » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (14 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL