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gallagher
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I'm sitting in an asparagus field, in northern Germany.
I'm seeing 'protesters' ride by, on the trains...
'Protesters', in the news,...newspapers,..on the radio,
...around the World,
shouting for Afro-Americans.

When my Bulgarian and Romanian co-workers ask me,,..
i play stupid.
.."No idea."

But, in the back of my head,
...in my soul,
i think....

"According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with Whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost eight times higher than Whites, and the victim rate six times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of White victims killed by Whites and 93% of African American victims killed by African Americans.[60][61][62]

In 2013, African Americans accounted for 52.2% of all murder arrests, with Whites 45.3% and Asians/indigenous Americans 2.5%. Of the above, 21.7% were Hispanic.[63][64]

Blacks account for the majority of gun homicide victims and arrestees in the US while Whites (including Hispanics) account for the majority of non-gun homicide victims and arrestees. Of the gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 and 2016, 57% were black, 40.6% white (including Hispanic), 1.35% Asian, 0.98% unknown race and 0.48% indigenous American. Non-gun homicides represented about 30% of total murders in the time period. Blacks were also over-represented in such homicides, although only by about 2.5 times their share of the general population.[65] Of the non-gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 to 2016, 61.5% were white (including Hispanic), 32.9% black, 2.29% Asian, 1.89% unknown race and 1.43% indigenous American.[66]

It's taken from wiki's lastest info,.."Race and Crime in the U.S.'.

I feel a bit ashamed,.,
but,..
i believe until these numbers are faced,.
by ALL,...
the masquerade will continue.

I believe, as well,
there IS NOT a 'racial' discrepency here,..
but a 'cultural' one.
Gallagher
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
This number will vary DRASTICALLY. A police officer doing his job and interacting with the public is a target for nonsense complaints. But there is a ratio of complaints that are investigated that have merit.

What I mean to say is once people learned that a complaint can follow a cop, right or wrong, often they are leveled JUST to get even. I will say 17 seems higher than average.

Most cops, and by most I mean a very large majority which is about 90% never even draw their firearm on duty, much less fire it. Even cops in hot zones don't really fire weapons much. It seems as if in this case this particular cop for whatever reason was around a lot when weapons were fired. I draw no conclusion from this other than to say again it seems higher than average.

I will tell you the following. REGARDLESS of what is being portrayed by the "if it bleeds it leads" crowd, the huge percentage of people who have interactions with law enforcement do not go bad. I am not saying some are not uncomfortable and that there are not problems. There ARE and they should be addressed when they happen. To paint the situation as it is being done is just stupid. This was ONE guy, or a few, doing a horrid thing. It needs to be addressed. It needs to be condemned. It does not need to be portrayed as "normal".


Tom before you continue to twist my words and spin meaning here is the point.

I'm done. You are no longer looking for clarification you are trying to twist things.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, gallagher wrote:
I'm sitting in an asparagus field, in northern Germany.
I'm seeing 'protesters' ride by, on the trains...
'Protesters', in the news,...newspapers,..on the radio,
...around the World,
shouting for Afro-Americans.

When my Bulgarian and Romanian co-workers ask me,,..
i play stupid.
.."No idea."

But, in the back of my head,
...in my soul,
i think....

"According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with Whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost eight times higher than Whites, and the victim rate six times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of White victims killed by Whites and 93% of African American victims killed by African Americans.[60][61][62]

In 2013, African Americans accounted for 52.2% of all murder arrests, with Whites 45.3% and Asians/indigenous Americans 2.5%. Of the above, 21.7% were Hispanic.[63][64]

Blacks account for the majority of gun homicide victims and arrestees in the US while Whites (including Hispanics) account for the majority of non-gun homicide victims and arrestees. Of the gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 and 2016, 57% were black, 40.6% white (including Hispanic), 1.35% Asian, 0.98% unknown race and 0.48% indigenous American. Non-gun homicides represented about 30% of total murders in the time period. Blacks were also over-represented in such homicides, although only by about 2.5 times their share of the general population.[65] Of the non-gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 to 2016, 61.5% were white (including Hispanic), 32.9% black, 2.29% Asian, 1.89% unknown race and 1.43% indigenous American.[66]

It's taken from wiki's lastest info,.."Race and Crime in the U.S.'.

I feel a bit ashamed,.,
but,..
i believe until these numbers are faced,.
by ALL,...
the masquerade will continue.

I believe, as well,
there IS NOT a 'racial' discrepency here,..
but a 'cultural' one.
Gallagher


These are inconvenient for those with an agenda.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, funsway wrote:


The 57 cops who resigned over outrage of how their fellow officers were treated opens a new can of worms.

I need more info before forming an opinion, but feel much of the reporting may have an antagonistic bias --
that is, I do not trust the reported reasons for their actions with injected words like gestapo and "following orders" defense.



As far as I've seen, the "following orders" defense came from the union leader, directly. Today, further info:


"The Buffalo police officers’ union told members they would no longer be covering legal fees related to the protests"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/202......are-sus/
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
What exactly is all this BS about? WHite cops killing a black man? Ever heard of Tony Timpa? didn't think so. He was a white man that was killed by 4 "white" police officers. He was handcuffed and face down with cops kneeling on his back. He couldn't breathe. He eventuall died laying on the ground while cops were laughing and mocking him. He was unconscious for several minutes with the cops still kneeling on his back. Paramedics came and when he was put on the stretcher they told the cops he was dead. THis happened almost a year ago. Stop turning this into a race war. It makes you look stupid and at best, your fueling hatred.



There are some significant differences between the Floyd killing and the Timpa killing. First, the Timpa incident occurred in 2016 – not a year ago. It took 3 years and much battling for the police bodycam footage to be released by court order. Had there been realtime eyewitness footage (as in Floyd's case), the immediate aftermath would likely have been much different. However, it’s hard to evoke the same reaction to something that happened more than 2 years ago as it is to something that just happened and has garnered so much media attention. Timpa has long been buried, while Floyd hadn’t even had a funeral service. Second, the officer was kneeling on Timpa’s back, arguably less potentially deadly than kneeling on the neck. Third, the medical examiner at the time wrote that Timpa’s death was caused by a combination of “cocaine and stress from physical restraint, sometimes referred to as excited delirium syndrome.” The independent autopsy report on Floyd says he died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

Of course, none of this is meant to minimize or justify Timpa's death. It's tragic and it should not have occurred. Just pointing out some key differences.

Quote:

Those of you who hate cops and especially white ones, god help you if you ever need them.


Why “especially white” cops?

By the way, and as you already noted, Timpa was killed by "white" cops.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
tommy
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With the cops it‘s more of a class thing: when was last time the cops killed a millionaire?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, tommy wrote:
With the cops it‘s more of a class thing: when was last time the cops killed a millionaire?


not sure, but I have known rich folks of color pulled over in obvious racial profiling. After being hassled with some lie cover story,
he was released with a warning, "might be better to take another route home."

The officer had no idea that the man was a millionaire. He could have been shot. Wealth is not the issue.

Yes, if he was driving a nice car and wearing a tuxedo he might have been let go with less verbal abuse,
but he would have been stopped just the same to make sure he wasn't a drug dealer.

Profiling by apparent wealth is just as bad as by race. The key is how the officer is prepared to act.

When this happened years ago the officer approached with only a note pad in hand.
Today they would have hand on gun or have it drawn.

Th likelihood of someone getting shot (me in the back seat) is greater today.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Bobby Forbes
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
What exactly is all this BS about? WHite cops killing a black man? Ever heard of Tony Timpa? didn't think so. He was a white man that was killed by 4 "white" police officers. He was handcuffed and face down with cops kneeling on his back. He couldn't breathe. He eventuall died laying on the ground while cops were laughing and mocking him. He was unconscious for several minutes with the cops still kneeling on his back. Paramedics came and when he was put on the stretcher they told the cops he was dead. THis happened almost a year ago. Stop turning this into a race war. It makes you look stupid and at best, your fueling hatred.



There are some significant differences between the Floyd killing and the Timpa killing. First, the Timpa incident occurred in 2016 – not a year ago. It took 3 years and much battling for the police bodycam footage to be released by court order. Had there been realtime eyewitness footage (as in Floyd's case), the immediate aftermath would likely have been much different. However, it’s hard to evoke the same reaction to something that happened more than 2 years ago as it is to something that just happened and has garnered so much media attention. Timpa has long been buried, while Floyd hadn’t even had a funeral service. Second, the officer was kneeling on Timpa’s back, arguably less potentially deadly than kneeling on the neck. Third, the medical examiner at the time wrote that Timpa’s death was caused by a combination of “cocaine and stress from physical restraint, sometimes referred to as excited delirium syndrome.” The independent autopsy report on Floyd says he died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

Of course, none of this is meant to minimize or justify Timpa's death. It's tragic and it should not have occurred. Just pointing out some key differences.

Quote:

Those of you who hate cops and especially white ones, god help you if you ever need them.


Why “especially white” cops?

By the way, and as you already noted, Timpa was killed by "white" cops.

Ron


Ok. When you say it's "hard to evoke the same reaction to something that happened two years ago"...
Why are people still enraged at something that happened 100 years ago and didn't even effect them? And still touting "hands up don't shoot". That was from years ago. Your point is invalid.

Also the first autopsy report said differently and when the family paid for their own medical examiner, it changed if course.

Also lay on the ground. Have someone kneel on the back of your neck. Then have someone kneel on your back. Much harder to take a full breath when your lungs are getting compressed by someone's weight.

Not saying this death is ok AT ALL. It's sad and the cops involved need to be punished accordingly. But I don't think Floyd was "choked" to death. I think it was more a knee on the corotid artery that caused his death. Either way he died. Sad indeed.

And I brought up the "white thing" because this is a police brutality thing, NOT a race thing that people keep turning it into. There is a video of a black police officer choking a black man against his car yelling "make me", provoking the mann to fight back. The man is heard trying to say he can't breathe. Again, you haven't seen that one.

Point is, it happens with EVERY race. This is turning into much more than it actually is. And yes, there are plenty examples of Asians, whites, Hispanics, etc dying the same way AND CAUGHT ON FILM that goes unheard of. All you have to do is search and they are out there. Sadly they will never appear in the media and it just fuels the frustration of all the people that ask "why not"
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:

Ok. When you say it's "hard to evoke the same reaction to something that happened two years ago"...
Why are people still enraged at something that happened 100 years ago and didn't even effect them? And still touting "hands up don't shoot". That was from years ago. Your point is invalid.


What are you referring to that happened 100 years ago that people are still enraged about and didn’t even affect them?

Do you think that we would have seen the same unrest in the streets over the past week and a half if the George Floyd incident had never occurred?


Quote:

Also the first autopsy report said differently and when the family paid for their own medical examiner, it changed if course.


The Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

So either way you get “neck compression/pressure.”


Quote:
Also lay on the ground. Have someone kneel on the back of your neck. Then have someone kneel on your back. Much harder to take a full breath when your lungs are getting compressed by someone's weight.


Well then thank goodness the cop wasn't kneeling on Floyd's back! Who knows what could have happened if he did.

Floyd said repeatedly “I can’t breathe.” The video shows the cop kneeling more on the side of Floyd’s neck – not the back of the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve8S0rGd9-c

But either way, I think most people would rather take their chances with a knee on their back rather than the fragile neck/throat area.


Quote:

Not saying this death is ok AT ALL. It's sad and the cops involved need to be punished accordingly. But I don't think Floyd was "choked" to death. I think it was more a knee on the corotid artery that caused his death. Either way he died. Sad indeed.


Who is saying he was “choked” to death? And why is that semantic triviality even relevant in light of what amounts to murder by cop?


Quote:
And I brought up the "white thing" because this is a police brutality thing, NOT a race thing that people keep turning it into.


When you say “Those of you who hate cops and especially white ones, god help you if you ever need them”, YOU are making it a race thing. Why “especially” white cops?


Quote:

There is a video of a black police officer choking a black man against his car yelling "make me", provoking the mann to fight back. The man is heard trying to say he can't breathe. Again, you haven't seen that one.


Can you please provide the video? Thanks. And what about it should lessen the outrage over Floyd?


Quote:

Point is, it happens with EVERY race. This is turning into much more than it actually is. And yes, there are plenty examples of Asians, whites, Hispanics, etc dying the same way AND CAUGHT ON FILM that goes unheard of. All you have to do is search and they are out there. Sadly they will never appear in the media and it just fuels the frustration of all the people that ask "why not"


Why do you suppose these other incidents that were “caught on film” did not garner as much attention as the Floyd incident?



Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Bobby Forbes
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Re read the first autopsy report.

And here is an example of the videos I'm referring to.

https://youtu.be/d4lYGl2roDQ
funsway
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It is my understanding that in Britain a death sentence by hanging can either state, "Hung by the neck until dead." or "Hanged by the neck."
The difference is in the placement of the large knot. In the first case the knot is in back and death is my strangulation/loss of air.
In the second the knot is on the side and the neck is broken - death my neural shock.

But, to the public the accused died by legal means. The accused cannot tell which method is better.
Yet, there is a difference in the perceived amount of suffering and pain that might ensue - a matter left to the judge.

So, does it really matter which form of excessive force was applied? Everyone can agree that it was excessive and it resulted in death about a possibly bad bill.

Surely the issues of race and military posturing and accurate news reporting and overreacting protestors are more important.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Bobby Forbes
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, funsway wrote:
It is my understanding that in Britain a death sentence by hanging can either state, "Hung by the neck until dead." or "Hanged by the neck."
The difference is in the placement of the large knot. In the first case the knot is in back and death is my strangulation/loss of air.
In the second the knot is on the side and the neck is broken - death my neural shock.

But, to the public the accused died by legal means. The accused cannot tell which method is better.
Yet, there is a difference in the perceived amount of suffering and pain that might ensue - a matter left to the judge.

So, does it really matter which form of excessive force was applied? Everyone can agree that it was excessive and it resulted in death about a possibly bad bill.

Surely the issues of race and military posturing and accurate news reporting and overreacting protestors are more important.


Well said
Dannydoyle
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What if the two of them worked at the same club? What if there was a preexisting beef between them? One that transcends the race issue and was just one guy who hated another guy? Well the charges would be upgraded to premeditated I should imagine, and then all the looting and rioting seems to be for nothing huh?

Interesting hypothetical is also what if the patrons of the bar complained about the way the off duty cop handled them? Seems as if this guy was bad news on almost all of his jobs.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
Re read the first autopsy report.


You mean the one that I already mentioned? The Medical Examiners report??

Quote:

And here is an example of the videos I'm referring to.

https://youtu.be/d4lYGl2roDQ


Thanks for that. What is the context? Who is the man? When and where did it occur? Did he die at the hands of the police? What was he accused of? And most importantly, what about it should lessen the outrage over Floyd’s death?

What are you referring to that happened 100 years ago that people are still enraged about and didn’t even affect them?

Do you think that we would have seen the same unrest in the streets over the past week and a half if the George Floyd incident had never occurred?

Who is saying he was “choked” to death? And why is that semantic triviality even relevant in light of what amounts to murder by cop?

When you say “Those of you who hate cops and especially white ones, god help you if you ever need them”, why did you say “especially” white cops, as if hating white cops is more offensive than hating cops of color?

Why do you suppose these other incidents that were “caught on film” did not garner as much attention as the Floyd incident?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Bobby Forbes
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Lol. I had a long winded response but decided to just leave it out. You already know the answers to the questions you're asking..

Bottom line is this is turning into a "race" war and becoming more about a white man killing a black man then just a cop killing someone do to excessive force.
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
Lol. I had a long winded response but decided to just leave it out. You already know the answers to the questions you're asking..


No, I don’t.

Quote:
Bottom line is this is turning into a "race" war and becoming more about a white man killing a black man then just a cop killing someone do to excessive force.


But you yourself make it a “race war” when you say “Those of you who hate cops and especially white ones, god help you if you ever need them.” Do you see how the sentiment conveyed in your statement just fans the flames? Why do you value white cops more than cops of color?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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I mentioned, the two worked in the same club and that there might something personal in it, some time ago. That is what a lot of black people are saying about it but it seems to have been censored, so I better not say it again.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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RNK
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
Lol. I had a long winded response but decided to just leave it out. You already know the answers to the questions you're asking..

Bottom line is this is turning into a "race" war and becoming more about a white man killing a black man then just a cop killing someone do to excessive force.


Totally agree Bobby. Funny how in the mainstream media you never hear about blacks killing blacks at record levels in Chicago. Doesn't fit the agenda. Bottom line is over 99% of cops are good. You will always have bad in everything, that's nature. Yes, I agree there has to be a way to rid/stop the less than 1% of bad cops. It's totally unacceptable and needs to be addressed. It's rather interesting how rioting and destroying of businesses is portrayed as ok in the mainstream media and gets very minimal attention and that there is no backlash from the media regarding "defunding" the police. Crazy times were are living in.
Dannydoyle
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How is that Utopia thing working out for the Chop thingie? Pretty great huh? Built a wall FIRST THING, then set armed guards and regulate who goes in and out.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 23, 2020, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2020, Bobby Forbes wrote:
Lol. I had a long winded response but decided to just leave it out. You already know the answers to the questions you're asking..

Bottom line is this is turning into a "race" war and becoming more about a white man killing a black man then just a cop killing someone do to excessive force.


Totally agree Bobby. Funny how in the mainstream media you never hear about blacks killing blacks at record levels in Chicago. Doesn't fit the agenda. Bottom line is over 99% of cops are good. You will always have bad in everything, that's nature. Yes, I agree there has to be a way to rid/stop the less than 1% of bad cops. It's totally unacceptable and needs to be addressed. It's rather interesting how rioting and destroying of businesses is portrayed as ok in the mainstream media and gets very minimal attention and that there is no backlash from the media regarding "defunding" the police. Crazy times were are living in.


From
https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/06/s......ity.html

Quote:
Stop using ‘black-on-black’ crime to deflect away from police brutality

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- “Why aren’t we talking about black on black crime?”

If you’ve expressed support for Black Lives Matter, spoken out against police brutality, or written a modest column in the past few weeks, you’ve probably been asked (or chastised) for not mentioning how many more black people kill other black people compared to the police.

There are answers to the question, “Why aren’t we talking about black on black crime?” But critics of Black Lives Matter don’t want to hear them.

If they cared, they’d be asking about crime within the African American community year-round, as many black activists and neighborhood leaders do. But as Doughboy told Tre in 1991’s “Boyz N the Hood” (and it’s still true today), “Either they don’t know, don’t show, or don’t care about what’s going on in the hood.”

When an opponent of Black Lives Matters talks about “blacks killing blacks” it’s almost always to deflect attention away from police brutality. As if one issue makes the other more acceptable.

When someone commits an act of terrorism against in the United States, which rightfully leads to anger and sadness, no one asks, “Well what about how many Americans kill other Americans each year?” Because that would crazy, now wouldn’t it?

But, by all means, let’s talk about “black on black crime.” You’ve probably heard a statistic like this before – The majority of black people murdered are killed by other black people. That’s true, but also misleading. The overwhelming majority of white murder victims each year are killed by white assailants. So, when’s the last time you heard the term “white on white crime?”

As shocking as it may be for some to hear, people generally commit crimes against people they know or live near. If you want to have a real discussion about crime, let’s talk about the factors that contribute to it happening in the first place.

White supremacists have attributed the fact that crime rates are higher among African Americans than whites to people of color being biologically more prone to violence. In reality, crime is directly linked more to poverty than race or any other factor.

According to the Bureau for Justice Statistics, People living in households with income below the federal poverty threshold are twice as likely to commit a violent crime than people in high-income households, regardless of race.

We live in a country where the poverty rate is more than twice as high among black Americans than white. And that has as much to do with 400 years of systematic racism than anything else.

White supremacists will tell you slavery was abolished more than 150 years ago. So, get over it. Yet, just as that was a hard sell to African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, it’s equally hard to accept 30 years after Rodney King and the L.A. Riots and weeks removed from the deaths of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd.

Thomas Abt, a senior research fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, writes:

“Racial disparities in crime and punishment are real, but they have been produced in large part by a sustained campaign of persecution by whites against disempowered minorities, particularly African Americans. Officially, that effort has ended; overt racial discrimination has been prohibited by law for decades. Nevertheless, the brutal legacy of that campaign — racism, segregation, concentrated poverty, and violence — remains.”

None of this necessarily means a black person being killed by another black person is more or less significant than if they were killed by a police officer. Death is death and murder is murder.

Yet, what if it were captured on video? Could a victim’s family take solace in knowing evidence exists for that person to be prosecuted? That’s usually the case. But that may not matter for George Floyd. It certainly didn’t matter in the cases of Eric Garner or Tamir Rice.

What is someone supposed to do when you can be murdered legally? When police can harass you and then choke you out because you’re selling loose cigarettes or when a cop can kneel on your neck as you cry out “I can’t breathe" while his colleagues stand by and watch.

That’s why police brutality is its own unique horror. And African Americans are two and half times more likely than whites to be killed by law enforcement.

When you step outside every day knowing you’re twice as likely to be killed by someone sworn to protect you just because of the color of your skin, you’re dealing with a different type of fear. Don’t let statistics, ignorance or flat out racism cloud that.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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