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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I haven't voice opinion of late, and do not expect many to support my view here ...
the entire circumstance and reactions to an arrested man dying in custody might be rightful cause for demonstration and protest, but .. This morning news claimed "hundreds of protestors arrested in New York.' Wrong reporting only adding fuel to the fire. I challenge anyone to show where a single person was arrested for exercising their First Amendment right to peaceable assemble and voice their opinion. No, these people were rioters, arrested for breaking the law - committing acts of destruction of private property, acts or threats of violence against another. Worse crime of all is looting. Some ancient cultures would execute looters on the spot. Maybe a good idea. Looting has NOTHING to do with any protest or message in support of any cause. Certainly not about a death in another State. Not about race or poverty either. It is about greed and opportunism. It is a crime against my guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed. And our news media treats such crimes as "normal reactions" sugar coated as "protest." Murder is wrong. Vandalism is wrong. Assault against another is wrong. At least get the reporting correct. People are being arrested for breaking the law. How those police officers and looters and thugs are judged and held accountable is matter for our courts, not news reporters. I will always support another person's right to protest what they believe to be a wrongful act or attitude. I will challenge any act of violence or destruction or deliberate misinformation. This post is protest.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Protest; from pro, before and + testari, testify. A protest was normally a verbal complaint made before the public. But today we have things called protest marches and so on from the American civil rights days. So it went from words to actions. Now we have protest riots and so on, which is all a far cry from the original meaning of protest. I think we will have to learn to live with it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I'm with you up until you seemingly overstate the part about your "guaranteed freedom from fear of having my person and property destroyed by another's greed".
I'm fairly certain those rights are not enshrined anywhere in any document from our founders. I understand what you are expressing, and in sentiment am in agreement. But we can't just make things up and hold society to them either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The main media normally try to paint every protester as a criminal, rather than the other way around. When a few people burn a building down that is big news. A peaceful protest is not news but they get tarred with the same brush by ignoring them. Also what we have in these situations are agitators who are sometimes police infiltrators. Things are not always what they seem to be. Personally I would not join any group of protesters or the like, because you do not know what you are getting into.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Ken, I take issue with a lot of the assumptions, omissions, and statements in your post, but unfortunately, past experience here shows that it's very difficult to have a coherent discussion on a matter like this on the Café and not get it shut down. So I'll just leave it at that. I disagree.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote: just my spin on "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" I guess. part comes from "Freedom from fear is listed as a fundamental human right according to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. On January 6, 1941, United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt called it one of the "Four Freedoms" at his State of the Union, which was afterwards therefore referred to as the "Four Freedoms Speech." Yup, probably overstated relative to what most folks feel. Maybe some will pay attention. No violence though. No one has that right.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, funsway wrote: Seriously?? You can't think of any crime worse than looting? And executing them on the spot may be a "good idea"? For Pete's sake we don't even execute rapists or murderers "on the spot." Arrest and jail the looters for sure, but suggesting we simply kill them on the spot is beyond the pale. Quote:
Murder is wrong. Vandalism is wrong. Assault against another is wrong. Yes indeed. But they are not all equal. And this article presents another interesting twist to the protests: https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-r......macists/ Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, landmark wrote: Yea. BUT just so it is said I am just appalled that racism or any bigotry against others based on superficial issues and not content of character happening in 2020 is just SO TOUGH for me to get a handle on intellectually. I am IN NO WAY saying it does not happen! Oh lord no. But the fact that it DOES happen is just beyond my ability to reason out. I will try to relate this story and keep in boundaries. I think the point is important. I have a friend who is a person of color. We were driving in Mississippi from one club to another and got pulled over by a State Trooper. Well the dismissive language he used to speak to my friend, who was driving, and the way this started to go was outright scary. I'm not kidding I was wondering if we might end up in a ditch. It is a MUCH longer story with all sorts of colorful language but suffice as to say it was scary for me. Here is the issue. I am a white dude. I lived with this sort of thing for about 15 minutes. Yea real fear, but NOT 24/7. I am NOT trying to make excuses for ANYTHING done by ANYONE, and believe me with my cop background I get what is happening on each side. But to live in fear is not living. Of course nobody should riot and loot. I don't think this is the point even the looters and rioters are making. I justify nothing happening and condemn the murder of another human being. All I wanted to do was add perhaps a slight bit of perspective is all. Not argue right/wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, funsway wrote: Yea that is why we don't get our "own spin" on our rights. They are quite specific and detailed. No violence is absolutely correct.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Isn’t that what the protest is about; police killing people for nothing?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Lost on a Green Screen 285 Posts |
Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you ~ The Human Race ~
`sigh...
I still recall the day I met Beaker from the Muppets. He said to me "Meep, meep, mee mee mee Meep!", and that has made all the difference.
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Tim Snyder Regular user Chicago, IL 112 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Animated Puppets wrote: Which is why I shake my head at the idiots who talk about colonizing Mars. If we can't get along on this planet with its fairly plentiful resources, how can any intelligent person believe there can be any semblance of justice/democracy on Mars with its non-existent resources. Mars will be a hellish dictatorship. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Animated Puppets wrote: No such thing. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2020, Tim Snyder wrote: So little will change.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
[quote]On May 31, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea that is why we don't get our "own spin" on our rights. They are quite specific and detailed. /quote] It is interesting that you took my phrase "guaranteed freedom" and 'put the spin on it' of "document of our founders." We have many legal guarantees not mentioned in documents drafted by our founders, and certainly "founders" includes others than signers of specific documents. This includes letters and documented speeches by members of Congress related to the creation of the Bill of Rights. Interesting read. However, one document includes the words, " that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Not very specific at all! It certainly states there are other rights not mentioned in that document. (not detailed) I reserve the right to decide what "happiness" means for me, and the "pursuit" of same. That is not a "spin." Yes, my "life" is probably more threatened by a person breaking the law by driving with a cellphone than a bigot looting in a distant city, but it is a threat to my happiness just the same. I have experiences similar to your story on the "racial bias" side, and others about excessive actions by police. I am appalled by both - even ashamed for humanity. Was I more affected as to "violation of rights" when they happened to me, or when I observed the violation of other people? Once, in a classroom setting, I was relating how I had saved a man's life. One student asked about the man's color. This shocked me more than the horrors of the event. Even worse, no other student seemed to find the question terrible or were afraid to say anything for fear of being bullied. Given the apparent class attitude, how was I to respond? Prejudice may be natural to humans. Bigotry is learned. I stand by my right to feel threatened and fearful back then and now.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Lost on a Green Screen 285 Posts |
Quote:
I reserve the right to decide what "happiness" means for me, and the "pursuit" of same. Those looters looked pretty happy to me and appear to have pursuit'ed as well...
I still recall the day I met Beaker from the Muppets. He said to me "Meep, meep, mee mee mee Meep!", and that has made all the difference.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Difference is, Anima - is that I don't physically harm others, damage property and break the law.
If that distinction escapes you, I am even more saddened. all personal rights must be mediated by respect for the rights of others in a society. this concept is embodied in every culture as some form of the "golden rule" or even "an ye do no harm." I will allow that you are just making an ironic joke as a way of masking your pain and revulsion. but some may take your statement seriously, and take it as permission to violate someone else. Is that what you desire - support of violence and lawlessness, even in jest?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Lost on a Green Screen 285 Posts |
It's not us... it's them.
It's not our guys... but those guys. It's not me... it's you. My point is that there isn't any us nor them, ours or theirs, or you or me. I avoid watching the news. It elevates my blood pressure too much. Unfortunately, I have a Facebook account and have seen the videos. I think when I turn 55 I'll reward myself by leaving FB, but I digress... When I saw the video of the looters I thought..."If that was my store I would be shooting every looter (even the pregnant woman) and follow them out to their car and redecorate the upholstry..." but, that is the beast in me. * I would feel justified because the cops failed to stop them and forced my hand to protect (pursuit & happiness) my business and my God given rights. BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Let me throw in a straw man.... You're walking along in your nice shoes (you decide the style/make) and a kid jumps out with a gun and says "Give me your shoes!" You say "Huh?" the kid then shoots you and takes your shoes. Too completely different situations right? But in the end, both get killed over a pair of shoes. I'm not saying you wanted to shoot the looters, nor am I asking. I'm just (poorly) trying to share a revelation. I have no solution, but there isn't any us... or them...
I still recall the day I met Beaker from the Muppets. He said to me "Meep, meep, mee mee mee Meep!", and that has made all the difference.
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