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magicalaurie
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landmark
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From Twitter:

"The name of the 75yo man who was shoved by Buffalo police, as he spoke to them, is Martin Gugino.
Beyond shoving him, cops didn’t immediately render aid.
The police dept said a man tripped & fell. They changed their story after this video surfaced."

Last I heard, he was in the hospital in serious condition.

We are experiencing a lot of out of control responses here, too, in Brooklyn.
magicalaurie
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Further illustration, italics my own:

"Nearly five dozen Buffalo police officers, specially trained for civil unrest, resigned from their unit Friday after two colleagues were suspended after a video surfaced appearing to show them shoving and seriously injuring a 75-year-old protester, officials said.

The members of the Buffalo Police Department's Emergency Response Team quit after the fallout from Thursday night's incident, which was caught on tape, according the Police Benevolent Association.

'Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,'"



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/buf......n1225776
Dannydoyle
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Just following orders. I could swear I've heard that somewhere before.

Someone should have TRIED to order me to shove a 75 year old protester when I was a cop. I'd have dared you. I guarantee it would have gotten interesting.

I'll allow that there may be more to this story, though I can't imagine what that may be.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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The same thing occurred in London where the old age pensioner the cops pushed for nothing died.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicalaurie
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"All members of the Emergency Response Team resigned from the unit on Friday in support of the officers who were suspended without pay for their aggression toward Martin Gugino, 75."

"The 57 officers will remain on the police force but are no longer on that team."

“'Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square,'”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/buffalo-co......ort-says
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Mr Salk
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It looks like the old man was gesturing or reaching for something on the cops belt. It was more of a push than a shove, exacerbated by his frail backpedaling.
They should’ve followed up with him but this is hardly brutality or even an unwarranted show of force.
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magicalaurie
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"Rivera spent decades as a Buffalo police officer and detective. He now chairs the council's police oversight committee. He says seeing the video it's clear to him the officers who pushed Martin Gugino to the ground used excessive force.

"'The action of the police officers didn't seem to be justified. At no point was the elderly gentlemen a risk to the Buffalo Police Department, the officers,' Rivera said.

"The fact that the incident occurred after the 8 p.m. curfew is no excuse, Rivera added, because this was a peaceful protest. He's disheartened by what happened — especially given this was a protest about police brutality.

"'It lends to the lack of confidence people have in law enforcement, especially at this time,' Rivera said."

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffal......e-ground
magicalaurie
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2020, Mr Salk wrote:
It looks like the old man was gesturing or reaching for something on the cops belt. It was more of a push than a shove, exacerbated by his frail backpedaling.
They should’ve followed up with him but this is hardly brutality or even an unwarranted show of force.


My first reaction was the same. But it does seem a little stiff for the situation.

Problem is I bet it never would have happened but for the heightened tension. The cop was on high alert and made a mistake.

I'm curious as to what "orders" he was following exactly. "Ckear the area of protestors" sounds like a reasonable order. This mistake CAN happen within the confines of that order. "Knock down that old man" is not really an order you follow.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Feebly attempting to justify this absolutely disgusting police brutality just adds insult to injury and causes riots.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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It’s interesting that we’re all presumably upright citizens who abhor violence and brutality yet view the same 5 second clip with differing synopses.
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magicalaurie
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We all have different knowledge and experience bases. I saw a 40 second clip, I think.

The police need to take account of the individual in front of them. They might be able to push their fellow 35 year old cop like that without hurting him, but they don't seem to have an understanding that Martin Gugino is in a different physical condition than they are. You don't seem to understand that, either. Too, his hands were full and that likely played a role in his lack of ability to break his fall. It also indicates it's highly unlikely he was grabbing for anything.

Older people are at seriously increased risk of falling, and that needed to be taken into consideration. A younger person, too, could have been seriously injured or killed by a push like that.

The police could have arrested Martin instead. Why didn't they do that? That's their job.

The amount of force they use needs to be commensurate with the individual they are facing, not what they view as convenient for themselves.

I'm not interested in "uprightness" or "abhorrance". If we're discussing the job of the police, though, they stepped out of context. I can understand that on a human level. We all need to do that. We need to understand what's going on. I think we all need to be careful, with everyone, with our world. Consider what we want for our time here. It's really very simple, and we all have that choice to make. I'm not sure I have much else to say about it. Thanks for your thoughts. All are welcome. Smile
Dannydoyle
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Yea you obviously have never done a job where people want to kill you.

Which is your point about different experiences.

Ask yourself which type of cop you want to show up when something absolutely horrible is happening to you or your family. Unless you have been on either end of that situation I'd suggest less judgment.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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I think you need to read more carefully and post lest hastily, Danny, honestly. Regardless, I appreciate your thoughts.

People can do some reading here at the Café, if the threads still exist, to learn about my experiences, Danny. You're making assumptions about things I've already discussed with you on those threads, as far as I recall, for the record.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2020, magicalaurie wrote:
The police could have arrested Martin instead. Why didn't they do that? That's their job.

The amount of force they use needs to be commensurate with the individual they are facing, not what they view as convenient for themselves


Regardless of how you try to justify it later in your post this speaks pretty loudly.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Point taken. How do you view the level of force they used on the subject shown in front of them?

Perhaps I used the word convenient because they appear to choose to use an excessive level of physical force rather than take the time to carefully consider the man they are forcing and the method of force they are using.

Overall, I think it's obviously turned out less than convenient.
Jonathan Townsend
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They didn't resign from their jobs as police, just that named unit.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mr Salk
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I don’t think their level of force was unjustified. His elderly stumble was unfortunate but it looks like they barely touched him. The failure to follow up on his injury is the negligence.
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