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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 02:28 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Hopefully in the future, Andi and Josh will tweak the format and try to lead the conversation in the lectures depending on the questions they see coming in (like how Murphy did it).
Murphy's and Penguin both gave up on the live lectures and questions long ago and the lectures got much better for it.
You’ve missed my point. They don’t necessarily have to ask the questions being posed, what is helpful is that the host can get a sense of what a general consensus is on what people are wondering about. This leads to a conversational back and forth with the lecturer. So let’s say you cut all participant chat out, you STILL end up with the host actively engaged with the lecturer which helps tremendously with having a more dynamic lecture that goes in directions which they would otherwise not have gone in if the lecturer was allowed to just lecture solo. When a lecturer lectures solo with no live outside influence, what you end up with is what we see in a lot of instructional videos. If people wanted a tutorial DVD type product, they can just buy Repertoire and Asi’s other releases (including his excellent lecture notes which he sells). That’s typically not why people attend lectures.
I'm not sure I missed your point. If you like audience questions/input at lectures, you're the first person I've met who does. But neither Penguin or Murphys has had audience questions or a live element for many years, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. And both got significantly better when they dropped the live format and the taking of questions altogether. A knowledgable host is all you need to create a lively back and forth.
In the case of this lecture series, any important questions that come up could be addressed in the following week rather than trying to sift through them in real time.
Let’s take Penguin. There’s a live audience for those lectures. That alone can help direct the direction of the lecture by live audience reactions alone. Now, notice how on Murphy’s and Penguin when they took live audience chats, they may not necessarily do a Q&A but instead see enough similar responses pop up in chat that they would then pose lead the lecturer in that direction.
Now, look at some other examples, Penguin lectures in particular has Dan posing questions and leading the lecture in certain directions at time because Dan felt that those directions were important to go in. Even with your argument that a good host would be able to do the back and forth, that’s exactly what was lacking in the VI format here. They’ve left the hour completely hands off. This creates an absence of the lecture being dynamic. It becomes less of a lecture and more like as if one was just watching a pre-recording like a DVD non-lecture release would be like. Also, nobody knows what the format for this would be like going forward so comments are simply on this first ever lecture for which myself and others are providing what I think is constructive criticism so that future ones will be more productive.
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, Emillors wrote:
Thanks for the answer
I think I will try it out. I have before spend my money wasted, but I don't think I could go wrong with any product from Asi. He always delivers.
Do people think the half hour there is with a Q&A, is good? I think its sounds really good!
So all in all, I think I will try it out, because the content in this live lectures from Asi seems so good!
Thanks
Best Regards
-Emil
It’s not really enough time for this format especially when the audience size is likely to be virtually unlimited. We shall see if this improves over time. I’m not writing this format and this series off yet since this is very new for all involved. Also, this being exclusively done online including the hosts, it’s kind of a new territory for magic lectures since magic has very much been an experience which has been mainly dependent on a live in person audience/spectator.
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emyers99
Inner circle
Columbus, Ohio
4741 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 04:20 pm
2
They need to do way with Q&A. People ask such stupid questions at lectures. All they do is waste time and make the lectures more painful to sit through.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 04:34 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, emyers99 wrote:
They need to do way with Q&A. People ask such stupid questions at lectures. All they do is waste time and make the lectures more painful to sit through.
I think that’s been more of a problem with the host not being all that selective with selecting questions than the concept itself (for online lectures where the questions are moderated). Cutting it out completely I think makes it no longer a lecture and more like a standard DVD instructional type product unless the host is actively participating with the lecturer (like what Dan does for Penguin Live lectures). I’m in for the next two months of VI Masterclasses so excited to see how this evolves.
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Mac_Stone
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1419 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 05:11 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, emyers99 wrote:
They need to do way with Q&A. People ask such stupid questions at lectures. All they do is waste time and make the lectures more painful to sit through.
I think that’s been more of a problem with the host not being all that selective with selecting questions than the concept itself (for online lectures where the questions are moderated). Cutting it out completely I think makes it no longer a lecture and more like a standard DVD instructional type product unless the host is actively participating with the lecturer (like what Dan does for Penguin Live lectures). I’m in for the next two months of VI Masterclasses so excited to see how this evolves.
They screened all of the questions.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 05:53 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote: On Jul 6, 2020, emyers99 wrote:
They need to do way with Q&A. People ask such stupid questions at lectures. All they do is waste time and make the lectures more painful to sit through.
I think that’s been more of a problem with the host not being all that selective with selecting questions than the concept itself (for online lectures where the questions are moderated). Cutting it out completely I think makes it no longer a lecture and more like a standard DVD instructional type product unless the host is actively participating with the lecturer (like what Dan does for Penguin Live lectures). I’m in for the next two months of VI Masterclasses so excited to see how this evolves.
They screened all of the questions.
I understand that, look over my posts. I’ve addressed that. I’ve addressed how this lecture format right now is lacking the element of being more dynamic and then made a comparison with Murphy and Penguin to point out what things they did right which can apply to VI’s new series to make the lecture more dynamic. There’s nowhere for which I have stated that this new series does not have a Q&A but simply pointing out how the Q&A portion is both too short and not handled that great imo. Not condemning the series but providing constructive criticism so that they can perhaps think about and evolve and improve the series/format.
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Troyze
New user
Johannesburg
96 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 04:32 am
0
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
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Sean Macfarlane
Special user
880 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 07:44 am
0
Anyone have a problem watching the 2nd part of the lecture off the Vanishing Inc’s site today?
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CopperChopCup
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 10:08 am
0
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Sean Macfarlane wrote:
Anyone have a problem watching the 2nd part of the lecture off the Vanishing Inc’s site today?
Yeah... very glitchy and lots of stuttering on the video. I have a very strong and fast fiber connection, so it wasn’t my internet. Kind of disappointed.
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Mac_Stone
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1419 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 02:48 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 12, 2020, Troyze wrote:
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
The resolution of the video download is 1280x720 compared to the resolution of Penguin Lectures that are 640x360.
The format of the web stream itself has apparently been custom designed by Andi Gladwin himself, it is very different from any commercially available web streaming service and feels more like a live professional broadcast rather than sitting in on a zoom meeting.
I'm sure that in the coming weeks, now that actual footage of the Master Class exists, they will be able to edit a trailer so consumer can get a better idea of what these workshops are all about.
A lot of people are still unhappy that there is no live in-person audience, I'm not sure what planet these people are living on where they can't see why this simply isn't an option at the moment.
This project has been entirely conceived and produced remotely by a group of people with no professional broadcasting/ web streaming experience and they've only just begun. I for one am quite impressed thus far and am confident they will continue to grow, evolve, adapt, and improve this project and I am very excited to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.
You have only to look at The Session convention to see how committed Josh and Andi are to providing quality content and services to the magic community. Starting from very humble beginnings The Session convention is now the mot sharply polished magic convention I have ever been to and I expect nothing less for this project as well.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 03:35 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
Quote: On Jul 12, 2020, Troyze wrote:
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
The resolution of the video download is 1280x720 compared to the resolution of Penguin Lectures that are 640x360.
The format of the web stream itself has apparently been custom designed by Andi Gladwin himself, it is very different from any commercially available web streaming service and feels more like a live professional broadcast rather than sitting in on a zoom meeting.
I'm sure that in the coming weeks, now that actual footage of the Master Class exists, they will be able to edit a trailer so consumer can get a better idea of what these workshops are all about.
A lot of people are still unhappy that there is no live in-person audience, I'm not sure what planet these people are living on where they can't see why this simply isn't an option at the moment.
This project has been entirely conceived and produced remotely by a group of people with no professional broadcasting/ web streaming experience and they've only just begun. I for one am quite impressed thus far and am confident they will continue to grow, evolve, adapt, and improve this project and I am very excited to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.
You have only to look at The Session convention to see how committed Josh and Andi are to providing quality content and services to the magic community. Starting from very humble beginnings The Session convention is now the mot sharply polished magic convention I have ever been to and I expect nothing less for this project as well.
The second part of Asi's lecture imho was better than the first part. The reason for me is that they didn't stick strictly with the hour only format and then 30 minute Q&A section this time. They were a fair amount more flexible this time around and Asi was allowed to lecture for about an hour and half and then we still had a 30 minute Q&A session at the end. This was what I was hoping to see from VI, allowing for flexibility as to how long a lecturer can go on for rather than sticking very strictly to a arbitrary time limit. Excellent stuff and this makes me excited to see part 3 of Asi's lecture series.
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BCE
Loyal user
280 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 05:30 pm
1
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
A lot of people are still unhappy that there is no live in-person audience, I'm not sure what planet these people are living on where they can't see why this simply isn't an option at the moment.
Complaints over no live in-person audience during a global pandemic? Oh, great - just what magic needs right now. A bunch of whiny Karens with their whiny entitlements.
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CopperChopCup
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 08:55 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
Quote: On Jul 12, 2020, Troyze wrote:
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
The resolution of the video download is 1280x720 compared to the resolution of Penguin Lectures that are 640x360.
The format of the web stream itself has apparently been custom designed by Andi Gladwin himself, it is very different from any commercially available web streaming service and feels more like a live professional broadcast rather than sitting in on a zoom meeting.
I'm sure that in the coming weeks, now that actual footage of the Master Class exists, they will be able to edit a trailer so consumer can get a better idea of what these workshops are all about.
A lot of people are still unhappy that there is no live in-person audience, I'm not sure what planet these people are living on where they can't see why this simply isn't an option at the moment.
This project has been entirely conceived and produced remotely by a group of people with no professional broadcasting/ web streaming experience and they've only just begun. I for one am quite impressed thus far and am confident they will continue to grow, evolve, adapt, and improve this project and I am very excited to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.
You have only to look at The Session convention to see how committed Josh and Andi are to providing quality content and services to the magic community. Starting from very humble beginnings The Session convention is now the mot sharply polished magic convention I have ever been to and I expect nothing less for this project as well.
The second part of Asi's lecture imho was better than the first part. The reason for me is that they didn't stick strictly with the hour only format and then 30 minute Q&A section this time. They were a fair amount more flexible this time around and Asi was allowed to lecture for about an hour and half and then we still had a 30 minute Q&A session at the end. This was what I was hoping to see from VI, allowing for flexibility as to how long a lecturer can go on for rather than sticking very strictly to a arbitrary time limit. Excellent stuff and this makes me excited to see part 3 of Asi's lecture series.
His handling of Wonder’s Tamed Card was the highlight for me. And the book test stuff.. just fantastic.
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leosx1
Veteran user
337 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 09:06 pm
0
I really enjoyed the second part of this workshop and look forward to attending the third part. Asi was so generous in sharing his time and outstanding material.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 10:23 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, CopperChopCup wrote:
His handling of Wonder’s Tamed Card was the highlight for me. And the book test stuff.. just fantastic.
That book test is beautiful. Really enjoyed that as well as Asi’s book recommendations.
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Troyze
New user
Johannesburg
96 Posts
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Posted: Jul 14, 2020 08:34 am
0
How interactive is the class? their selling point was it is highly interactive like the teacher is next to you. but from what everyone is saying it just looks like they are just live streaming with people just messaging questions in a chatbox.
I don't feel any different than any pre-recording lecture.
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Jair
New user
30 Posts
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Posted: Jul 14, 2020 09:50 am
0
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
Quote: On Jul 12, 2020, Troyze wrote:
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
(...)
This project has been entirely conceived and produced remotely by a group of people with no professional broadcasting/ web streaming experience and they've only just begun. I for one am quite impressed thus far and am confident they will continue to grow, evolve, adapt, and improve this project and I am very excited to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.
(...)
If you have no professional experience in something then you maybe shouldn't sell it for a high price. That's when customers are feeling that they did not get their money's worth. Especially if this part impacts that part of your product you're are actually good at (in this case the magic).
Or...
pay someone who has the experience to do it for you...
You would never be showing up for a corporate gig saying: "My magic is very good, but my music and my voice will sound really crappy over the PA because I have no experience in sound mixing. I hope you respect that..."
You would never get hired again.
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CopperChopCup
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Jul 14, 2020 12:43 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 14, 2020, Jair wrote:
Quote: On Jul 13, 2020, Mac_Stone wrote:
Quote: On Jul 12, 2020, Troyze wrote:
How is the quality of the live streaming? does it lag or it is HD? vanishing inc said it's better than Zoom so is it better in terms of production value? or it's the same as we chat on skype or facetime?
(...)
This project has been entirely conceived and produced remotely by a group of people with no professional broadcasting/ web streaming experience and they've only just begun. I for one am quite impressed thus far and am confident they will continue to grow, evolve, adapt, and improve this project and I am very excited to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.
(...)
If you have no professional experience in something then you maybe shouldn't sell it for a high price. That's when customers are feeling that they did not get their money's worth. Especially if this part impacts that part of your product you're are actually good at (in this case the magic).
Or...
pay someone who has the experience to do it for you...
You would never be showing up for a corporate gig saying: "My magic is very good, but my music and my voice will sound really crappy over the PA because I have no experience in sound mixing. I hope you respect that..."
You would never get hired again.
You’re not wrong. Even the introductory price with the purchase of three lectures is higher than the industry norm. No way would I recommend anyone even spend the $75 for one lecture. I really feel that this doesn’t measure up, and any excuse that “this is our first attempt” falls flat as they really should have offered a much cheaper price to hook viewers and subscribers.
This is no slight on Asi’s material. It’s very good. The delivery is what is problematic when compared to the price. It bothers me that I own these lectures now and I have to slog through an inadequate product to review the material. I think there would have been fewer complaints if the price were more in line with what was delivered.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 14, 2020 01:43 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 14, 2020, CopperChopCup wrote:
You’re not wrong. Even the introductory price with the purchase of three lectures is higher than the industry norm. No way would I recommend anyone even spend the $75 for one lecture. I really feel that this doesn’t measure up, and any excuse that “this is our first attempt” falls flat as they really should have offered a much cheaper price to hook viewers and subscribers.
This is no slight on Asi’s material. It’s very good. The delivery is what is problematic when compared to the price. It bothers me that I own these lectures now and I have to slog through an inadequate product to review the material. I think there would have been fewer complaints if the price were more in line with what was delivered.
To be fair here, the industry norm for the very top tier of performers doing an online lecture (Penguin) is $40. Those lectures average about 3-4 hours total. When subscribing to VI's, the lectures are $50. This brings the price to a comparable level relative to what Penguin charges.
I do agree though, not sure if this series is worth it a la carte for $75 each. I can see this possibly change from performer to performer as I can see how some performers might pull a Peter Turner and just go on forever tangents thus ballooning the running time
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CopperChopCup
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Jul 14, 2020 02:20 pm
0
Quote: On Jul 14, 2020, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote: On Jul 14, 2020, CopperChopCup wrote:
You’re not wrong. Even the introductory price with the purchase of three lectures is higher than the industry norm. No way would I recommend anyone even spend the $75 for one lecture. I really feel that this doesn’t measure up, and any excuse that “this is our first attempt” falls flat as they really should have offered a much cheaper price to hook viewers and subscribers.
This is no slight on Asi’s material. It’s very good. The delivery is what is problematic when compared to the price. It bothers me that I own these lectures now and I have to slog through an inadequate product to review the material. I think there would have been fewer complaints if the price were more in line with what was delivered.
To be fair here, the industry norm for the very top tier of performers doing an online lecture (Penguin) is $40. Those lectures average about 3-4 hours total. When subscribing to VI's, the lectures are $50. This brings the price to a comparable level relative to what Penguin charges.
I do agree though, not sure if this series is worth it a la carte for $75 each. I can see this possibly change from performer to performer as I can see how some performers might pull a Peter Turner and just go on forever tangents thus ballooning the running time
Yes, but with subscription for the Penguin lectures, that price drops even lower. If we are comparing ala carte prices $40 for Penguin and $75 for VI, it is difficult, so far, to justify the price difference. This is my opinion only, but I’m already considering ending my subscription after the first three until things smooth out a bit.
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kissdadookie
Inner circle
4275 Posts
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Posted: Jul 21, 2020 03:36 pm
0
Just watched the third and final part of Asi’s VI Masterclass. Part 3 for me paid for all three parts in and of itself. The information there I found to be invaluable in regards to remote shows/material.
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