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Mb217 Inner circle 9600 Posts 
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And once again, from somewhere out there…Man, this keeps getting better & better…Just look at this. I’ve never seen it done this way, this believably good. Have you?
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb 
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funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10015 Posts
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Never. High up on the palm is very unusual.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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GJo Veteran user 307 Posts
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I'm skeptical. Watch it at 25% slow mo, and you'll see he completely releases the coin with his right fingers prior to his left fingers closing. Then, the coin appears to vanish using a retention vanish.
Is that possible if the coin is completely released before the vanish? I suspect there's an edit in there, but if anyone knows the sleight to prove it's real please send me a PM. If it's real, then it's one of the best I've seen. |
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MartinL New user Germany 15 Posts
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Just beautifully done. I would guess there is a bit of Michael Rubinstein's R.O.P.S retention in there. This should allow the coin to be released before the vanishing occurs.
I see no editing and think he is just that smooth. |
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funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10015 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 8, 2023, GJo wrote: Back when my hands were able I used a sleight called "Flip" in which the coin is released and fully visible free before returning to the right hand. Another called "Flick" had the dropped coin feee and fully visible, then revealed as gone using asynchronous moves. Neither is used here, but the concept is possible. My problem with such open transfer application is the immediate reveal, when in many effects that reveals later after action to show the right hand empty. Here is shows off to magicians that he has it in his right hand. So, this is a skill demonstration and not an effect. To be really impressive, I would like to see what comes before and after in an actual effect. For all we known, this guy has never been before a live audience at all.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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MarcelR Loyal user Cologne, Germany 216 Posts
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This reminds me of the Ember Vanish by Danny Goldsmith, where the coin leaves the hand:
You will see it very quick in his trailer for "Optical". Found a guy doing it: |
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MarcelR Loyal user Cologne, Germany 216 Posts
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Can't find Danny doing it but (for free), but it's again Kemal showing the DG Retention. Looks pretty close, see yourself:
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Mb217 Inner circle 9600 Posts
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I don't know, none of these shown or mentioned look quite as good as what I posted. They are good takes but not as well done as what I posted, at least to my eye.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb
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MarcelR Loyal user Cologne, Germany 216 Posts
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My first post was more about releasing the coin.
Quote:
On Nov 8, 2023, GJo wrote: Just to show that there are other ways to do it, besides the better known. And for the second one: Showed both clips to my wife before and she thought it was about the same move, liking the second one more. Well, in this point I do not agree with her, but it showed two interesting points: It must be the presentation (sound effect, little more drama?) and what we see is the magicians view. Danny's original handling on this is way more loose and more comparable. I think I would only recognize on video, that the one you posted looks cleaner. Give it another try and go to 0:40 seconds: Perhaps this shows another thing: My eyes are not so well trained and I've seen way less coin magic than you. |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9600 Posts
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Love Danny’s work but again, very nicely done but what I don’t see is the complete (or what appears to be the complete) release of the coin…Where you see the coin in the hand and then the finger pulling away not touching it. Not seeing that here or in the others shown and or mentioned.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb
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funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10015 Posts
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What is the "awe & wonder" part of the effect you want each observer to remember?
If it has anything to do with whether not a finger touched a coin at a certain time ... Years ago I watched a friend restore an old car - incredible care, passion and artistry. Sorry I can't tell you which wrench he used clutch housing. Point is that one should look at the end result of the effect and work back to the "best sleight" for the task and setting. I like coin juggling too, which is what we have here. Is there really a market for a fake transfer in which the passing fingers release contact with the coin? Fun stuff - but what is the value?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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GJo Veteran user 307 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 9, 2023, funsway wrote: The value is social interaction. I'm reminded of Al Schneider's Vanishes Collection where he performs many vanishes that employ different techniques, but often look similar. |
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MartinL New user Germany 15 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 10, 2023, funsway wrote: I think it's exactly that. The joy of juggling and there's a market for that. You might not perform it in front of a large audience, but I like both. I like a nice effect and I don't care how it's achieved, but I also catch myself watching the same video over and over again, even though I know exactly what's happening, simply because I can't believe it's happening. That's entertainment too and I don't think it's just because I'm interested in coin magic. It's the discrepancy between what I see and what happens. Perhaps best compared to an optical illusion. They are simply beautiful to look at. |
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Dan McLean.jpg "View Profile") Inner circle Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur 1261 Posts
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I was woken by a disturbance in the Force. What could it be?
Oh. It was Mb217's post of the best retention pass I've ever seen. I keep playing it. I don't care what you call it. It's absolutely wonderful. Who is that guy? D |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4760 Posts
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Although I think it is overkill, I just wanted to show that R.O.P.S. technique can be used for the same idea. Not necessary IMHO though, as the R.O.P.S. move steals a coin out of a hand as it is closing.
https://youtu.be/dfRXoGoN2aI?si=WgCNqPJEiVOHLCYb
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27329 Posts
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Impressive
Just sleight of hand? 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4760 Posts
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My R.O.P.S.retention pass snaps the coin onto palm, then uses the technique to steal it back. All I did here was lift the finger off the coin for a split sec. I don't think the technique justifies changing the move - everyone is looking at technique over effect. All you need to do is perform your best vanish, and sell it. Goshman just did a toss.
Special sale! FREE magician T shirt (a $25 value, only L or XL - see link) while supplies last with each purchase of MIGRATE ($35 ppd USA) Magnetic Coins ($40 ppd USA) or Conviction Prediction ($45 ppd
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GJo Veteran user 307 Posts
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I'm familiar with the R.O.P.S. move.
The handling in the video doesn't look like the R.O.P.S. move, nor a variation of the R.O.P.S. move. The index finger is in a different position. Nor does it look like it employs any handlings in the Danny Goldsmith videos. I'm still not certain it's SOH. |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4760 Posts
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It is the same as the R.O.P.S. New Theory Retention pass with the exception that I lifted the second finger slightly before the steal. Here is the R.O.P.S. New Theory Retention pass (same technique as the R.O.P.S.move. but I take it as a compliment that you think there is something more.watch the move after the R.O.P.S. move:
https://youtu.be/zGyuSbmt5Vg?si=8s81z4psar7J1KUp
Special sale! FREE magician T shirt (a $25 value, only L or XL - see link) while supplies last with each purchase of MIGRATE ($35 ppd USA) Magnetic Coins ($40 ppd USA) or Conviction Prediction ($45 ppd
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GJo Veteran user 307 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 10, 2023, Michael Rubinstein wrote: I think what he's doing is closer to your Variation Retention Pass, yet still different. The best look is at :31 into the video (best watched at half or quarter speed). It's still almost impossible to detect the sleight. |
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Posted: Nov 8, 2023 04:51 pm 
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