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tommy
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Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club?

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/......ght.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Shhh.... it's really a secret gun control plot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
Jonathan Townsend
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...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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That sort of thing is bound lead to police officers being killed in self-defence. So that is not only a frightening tactic but it is also a stupid one.

If there's something strange
In your neighbourhood
Who you gonna call?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Well, tommy, then you got to deal with the whole thing of the US 2nd Amendment. If neo-Nazis can arm themselves freely, don't be surprised if anti-fascists seek to defend themselves with arms as well.

Welcome to the Wild West.
tommy
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Balance is good; let the scales of justice be with you.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Tim Snyder
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Quote:
On Jul 30, 2020, tommy wrote:
Balance is good; let the scales of justice be with you.


I agree! The government is attempting all sorts of social experiments to get Covid under control. Some cities are starting the social experiment of defunding the police. The social experiment that I want to try is to give every person in the country a gun. My thesis is that this would have remarkably little effect on crime rates. "Bad" neighborhoods with high crime would probably see a slight up tick in crime. "Sketchy" neighborhoods with moderate crime rates would probably see a slight decrease in crimes, while "Good" neighborhoods where people don't lock their car doors would see no noticeable change in the crime rate.

Violence is a community issue...not a weapon issue. If corporations really cared about Black Lives, they would start building stores and factories in the poor neighborhoods. It doesn't cost them anything to offer words of support, but it is no more effective at solving the problems than marching down a street shouting slogans.
landmark
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Quote:
The social experiment that I want to try is to give every person in the country a gun. My thesis is that this would have remarkably little effect on crime rates.


The actual record is decidely mixed. For example if you look at the state of Texas with very relaxed gun laws---where in effect you can test your thesis--gun deaths per capita are more than three times higher in Texas versus the more restrictive New York. In Louisiana and Mississippi, again, both states with few gun control restrictions, it's five times greater than New York. The gun death rates in those states are higher by the way than in Illinois, a state which conservatives like to point to as wracked with uber-violence--yet the gun death rate of Illinois is lower than a lot of other states with looser gun laws.

This map is interesting:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosma......earm.htm

I am NOT arguing for a strict cause-and-effect conclusion. But I am saying it's much more complicated than most people make it. And there are direct counter-examples to your thesis.
tommy
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Well, one can balance opposites; as we do in our magic. If somebody threatens one with a loaded gun then one's best bet maybe to act armless and be polite.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Tim Snyder
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2020, landmark wrote:

The actual record is decidely mixed. For example if you look at the state of Texas with very relaxed gun laws---where in effect you can test your thesis--gun deaths per capita are more than three times higher in Texas versus the more restrictive New York. In Louisiana and Mississippi, again, both states with few gun control restrictions, it's five times greater than New York. The gun death rates in those states are higher by the way than in Illinois, a state which conservatives like to point to as wracked with uber-violence--yet the gun death rate of Illinois is lower than a lot of other states with looser gun laws.


You misread my thesis. States are not communities. I also am not focusing on just gun deaths, but all homicides and crime. I would be much more interested in comparing cities rather than states. What are the stats of gun restricted cities like Los Angelos and Chicago versus lax gun law cities like Dallas, Houston and Miami? I also stated that I would expect to see the crime rate go up in "bad" cities. There is no denying that if you were somehow able to completely remove guns from cities where people are actively trying to kill each other, the homicide rate would drop. But it would still be much higher than where I live.

I agree completely that this is a complex issue. I guess the reason I posted was because I like to solve problems and not just complain. Defunding police and / or eliminating guns from America is going change Very Little. We have to find a way to encourage police to respect all persons they come in contact with. We need to find a way to encourage and give hope to persons in poverty stricken neighborhoods that there is a better world than guns and drugs and somehow provide a path for them.

If you look at state homicide rankings they are not as clear cut as your gun deaths

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.......ide_rate

Illinois is high on the list above Texas and Florida and California is just below Texas. I understand why you like to use New York as great state because of its gun control. It definitely is far down the list. I don't know that much about the socioeconomic situation in New York. But the states high on the list do seem to be those with the least amount of socioeconomic opportunities.

My thesis points more to the micro versus macro. If you live in a bad city, what would it take to transform it into a good city. If you live in good city like me, what would it take to transform it into a bad city? Handing out guns in my city isn't going to make it any less safe.
Tim Snyder
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Just as a note... I am not in Chicago proper. I live in a fairly affluent suburb.
Chessmann
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It isn't so much about gun control (thought it has failed so miserably in Chicago it has almost become a cliche) or the 2nd amendment as it is about decades of Democrat/progressive leadership in cities that has led to poverty, crime, corruption, the law being turned upside-down, the law not being enforced, the idea that the Corona Virus doesn't infect you if your are at a political event or a protest, etc...

"Gun deaths". Hmmmm...
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
landmark
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the idea that the Corona Virus doesn't infect you if your are at a political event or a protest, etc...


We forget so soon. Just who was it that was out in the street protesting first when COVID hit?:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/a......rictions

And which armed group was occupying public lands--with the assent of much of that other party?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation......e_Refuge

Really, the attempt to cherry pick and make it a one-sided partisan affair is a very weak argument. Plenty of corrupt politicians and people with lawless agendas on both sides.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2020, Tim Snyder wrote:
But the states high on the list do seem to be those with the least amount of socioeconomic opportunities.
That's a sensible approach - just look at where the violence happens and find ...a place where it's not enough to talk quietly and carry a big wallet as (hypothetically) there is something keeping the residents from accumulating wealth. A community of disenfranchised?

That almost begs one to ask how opportunities are found and what is necessary for wealth to accumulate.

I miss summers where folks were more interested in following a baseball team or musicians on tour.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2020, landmark wrote:
the attempt to cherry pick and make it a one-sided partisan affair is
...not helped when also arguing that entrenched entitlement protects rotten apples.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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Clubs of likeminded people of various sorts are really all about the food. Traditionally a new member of a gentlemen’s club at dinner carves the joint; which is why I guess clubs are called joints. A club needs a good cook anyhow. What do clay pigeons taste like?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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