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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
...how you do what you do as a mentalist?
I mean what's the PROCESS you go through as you read a mind? I was watching a performer doing a virtual show the other day. He did it like this: "Think of a number. Any four digit number." Then he smiled and turned the index card he had been holding toward the camera and guess what? The same four digits the spectator had named were on that index card! Then he rocketed into the next effect -- which was eerily similar to the one we had just seen. Effect after effect. Reveal after reveal -- always proceeded by that smug smile. Hmmm. I was thinking that it could have been called "trick" after "trick" -- because what I was seeing absolutely wasn't mentalism. While it was entertaining from an audience perspective to wonder how he knew these things, judging by the comments below, no one thought minds were being read. They thought clever tricks were being performed. He was obviously thinking "mentalism" but the audience was thinking "magician." Why was that? I'd respectfully suggest that, even though he constantly referred to himself as a 'mentalist,' his audience saw tricks because ultimately the performer saw what he was doing as 'tricks.' All of which leads me back to the question I started with: "How do you 'read' a mind?" For me, I always see my target far away...like a rough shape through the fog. And as get closer to the reveal, the shape takes on a more solid form. I can make out details like height...and rough facial features. I explain more about this in Sharpshooter -- but the idea is that it's a PROCESS of me working to use an ability I don't fully understand...to do something remarkable. It creates drama for the audience and makes the effect more interesting to watch. I firmly believe that the mentalism effect isn't purely about the reveal. That's a magic trick. A mentalism effect is about the journey TO the reveal...a journey we take our audiences on. A shared experience. This got me to wondering about how other performers approach the reveal...the process. What's your narrative? It comes down to the following three questions: 1) Where did your 'ability' come from? A family "gift"? Maybe it started after you were in an auto accident? Maybe you were bitten by a radioactive spider. Is it something you could always do? 2) What specific abilities do you have? Clairvoyant? Telepathic? Empathetic? Are you a remote viewer? Can you touch someone else without touching them? Do you know the future? HOW does your ability or abilities impact what you do as a mentalist? 3) How does it work? In terms of presentation before an audience...what steps do you go through in order to reach a conclusion? Actors call this "narrative" or "process." What's yours? It would be interesting to kick this around...ideas anyone? David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Jed Maxwell Regular user 133 Posts |
I am not a paid performer, but I have always been fascinated with the choice paid mentalists make with the above choices you outline David. That balance of having to run through the "process" and show flow. Can you really play it for real and spend far longer than the norm discerning a thought? Does anyone do that?
I wonder why quick hits like you described became the norm. I imagine that at the beginning of mentalism, the early performances were played for real and drew out the most from a single effect. I'd, personally, love to watch a guy suffer for an age to draw out a single image from someone's mind. I look forward to reading the fascinating replies your interesting post will garner. |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Hi, Jed...
I don't know how many posts this thread will draw because it's not about the latest greatest trick. I don't say that in a nasty way...most people are interested in finding the "Latest Greatest" whatever that they think will make them into great performers. This thread isn't about that...although I am convinced that what makes a great performance is a well thought out and executed presentation. If you've ever had the opportunity to see what Bob Cassidy did with three billets...or Max Maven has done with several index cards...I think you would understand what I am talking about. Somewhere along the way, mentalism stopped being mentalism and morphed into a magic show with a mentalism theme. When people make their selections for performance by stringing together trick after trick without considering how those tricks fit together...or thinking how each one fits into a show it's just...well...a string of...tricks. Before I start sounding like an old guy grousing about the kids on his lawn, let me say that I get it. Most people here aren't paid performers. They're here because they have an interest in mentalism...but they're not planning on playing a stage in the near future. Here's my thought: a mentalism program -- even a single mentalism effect -- is like a play. In a standard play you see the hero work his way through obstacle after obstacle as he fights his way through to his goal. If the audience likes him, they are pulling for him. But they also want to be entertained, right? Think about what a real mind reading show would be like: the guy walks into the audience and says "Think of a six digit number." The audience member does and the performer says "You're thinking of 435,218. "AMAZING" breathes the audience member. He walks up to a second person and asks them to think of a specific place. They do...and he says "You're thinking of a tiny town called Spruce Grove." AMAZING! Let's say he does this five more times. And, since he is a real mind reader, he is correct every time. How long would it be before people would start checking their phones and sneaking out the back door? Ask yourself WHY. The guy IS reading minds. How did it go from AMAZING to BORING so quickly? It's not ENTERTAINING...and that is because of a lack of PRESENTATION. There's nothing for the audience to hook onto...nothing for them to invest their attention in...nothing to care about. The guy's just showing off. Watch that audience breathe a collective sigh as they realize that's all he's going to do. NOW let's say a different guy hits the stage and he's not CERTAIN his ability will work. He asks a pretty girl to remember her first kiss...and as she thinks about it the audience sees him REALLY working to draw the details of her memory out of the fog. Maybe there is a point where you see him falter because he's just not connecting with his volunteer. You see him uncertain. THEN you see him GET THE THOUGHT in one blinding moment. He delivers it with energy...and relief. That's what makes the routine work. First: you're learning something interesting about a stranger. Second: We can all relate to the tender memory of a first kiss. (Well...most of us.) Third: We get to SEE this guy work to do something genuinely amazing right in front of us. How does an effect like this even compare to some guy sitting behind a camera blandly revealing 'random strings of numbers?' That, to me, is the single difference between magic and mentalism. And the only way this can play convincingly is if the performer has an idea of how these ideas come to him...and THAT calls for an understanding of the narrative. So... David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1274 Posts |
I don't know how many times I have written or said (and read and heard) what David Thiel posted. One of the strong ideas is the process is at least as entertaining as the reveal. The process is the anwser to the "How do you do this?" question that's in the audience's mind.
If you don't tell them your process, they will look for your trick. It's as simple as that, yet very few mentalist do this way, even some who give that piece of advice. But it's difficult, I hear many of you say. "The process is the boring part. People want a snappy and spectacular finale. Get rid of everything hat's not spappy and spectacular and you will be fine". If it were true, any Batman movie would last 2 minutes: here's the Batman, here's the Joker, the former kicks the latter's ass. Please applaude. Same thing goes for magic, by the way, but let's focus on mentalism, because whereas magic is tricks (in the modern audience's mind), mentalism is real: real thought reading or real NLP, but real. Of course, your main goal is to entertain. But if you are a mentalist, you want to do that by having your audience believe you do it for real. Well, maybe you can't convince them all, but you want to do your best. And that's important, because it gives you a "role model" for that part. You could imagine you are an actor playing the part of a mindreader and want to give the Oscar a shot. But I believe you will find more incentive if the stakes are higher, if you imagine you are a scammer who risks his freedom AND wants the sucker to willingly hand out his money. Leave out the moral part. Imagine your goal is not to entertain, but to convince your audience you really can read minds, through telepathy, ancient witchcraft of modern body language reading. What would you do? 1 - you would probably tell them where you get your powers from (from birth, alien abduction, degree in whateverology...) 2 - you would probably give tell them a little bit about how it works (concentration, third eye, micro expressions,...) 3 - you would demonstrate in a way the audience could see you are actually doing what you described in #2 --because you want to convince them. Then you would go on with demonstrations, explaining less and less (no need to anymore), and maybe going towards experiments that can not be explained with what you said!? How much you say in #1 and #2 depends on your style. If you are "Kurozawa-esque", it can take a while (and be entertaining), if you are "EdgarWright-oid", #1 and #2 can last 5 seconds each but still get the point accross. The easiest way is to start there, but of course it's not the only one. I never explain where I got my powers from, nor when it started. I "sprinkle" information during the show with hints, flash-backs,... What is crucial is to have a clear idea of how your own powers function. I read mind only if the assistant accepts to send me his or her thoughts, or at leasts donesn't object my receiving them. They arrive as pictures, colors, sounds, feelings, and it helps if I can touch the spectator (this won't change, but I won't be able to rely on that as much as before). I tell my audience, because some spectators are genuinely aftraid I will read their mind in public, so I want to reassure them. Then, when demonstrationg, I will start slow and with plenty of details at first, so the audience can see me doing and going through what I said: receiving impressions, putting everything together to reach a set goal. I the following phases or routines, if it's about a "phenomenon" I already demonstrated, I will increase the speed and give fewer details. But if I present a new phenomenon, going from mindreading to clairvoyance ("object reading"), I will give a few explanations again (but not as much). As much as I can, I try to make the way my powers work (the process) visual. For example, let's say no one knows what's written on a card inside an envelope. I can't use telepathy. I could just touch the envelope and close my eyes, and I will do it if the audience is close, but on stage, I will use my hands to gather "things" that float in the air (I don't specify what), and bring them to my head, ears, eyes and nose. Explaining a little bit sets their mind "on course". Not explaining too leaves a much appreciated room to their imagination --and allows me to make a few mistakes
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On Aug 3, 2020, David Thiel wrote: Look at this - a discussion about mentalism in the mentalism forum! It's so nice to see an actual discussion attempted here about mentalism, however, I suspect it won't get much traction with today's regular members here that only think of mentalism as just a type of magic. But it may draw out or back some that would still like to discuss the actual art of mentalism, not magic. It will also be interesting to see how this goes now that one of the guys that seems to endlessly enjoy turning many here against those truly wanting to share, discuss and help others to better understand mentalism by attempting to discredit and cast shade at every opportunity and to derail such actual topics and advice. To add to what David and Cervier have stated, mentalism needs three things upfront before ever thining about effects or performance material" 1.) A foundation for your mentalism, where many foundational questions are defined, addressed, and answered, and many foundational decisions are made. 2.) the process that you will be using to present these determined positions. And 3. The positioning and desired expectation of the audience. Any skilled mentalist knows and understands you, the mentalist, has control over this, and this must be established to properly execute and perform as a true mentalist. So many today avoid these things, the work required in both study and practice to achieve this. Also, many today don't care at all about portraying mental abilities that make sense or a premise because no one today wants to commit to being real or even more so doing it for real. Also, the element of Psi is greatly missing from most attempting to perform mentalism today. So many perspectives today are from the "me" position of the performer, not the bigger picture that really what really matters which is the audience you are performing to and the client, venue, or contact that is paying you. I hope this gets some discussions without the typical derailing and comments from those that this doesn't even apply to. Thanks, David. |
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
David has started a discussion on a major, but oft-ignored topic. I appreciated his analogy of a play.
I have nothing to add except to refer us to Luke Jermay’s dvd, from several years ago—“Making Mentalism Real.” Luke emphasizes that what audiences really want to see is what reading a mind might look like. The reveal is the clincher, but not the main show. George |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Okay...since people ARE talking...here's an idea. I've done this in virtually every show in the past 10 years.
I have a section where I have...trouble. An example: My closing effect is most often a M*ndBuster routine (although I have also done what follows with imp pads, CTs) where I propose to read three minds at a time. One person writes down the Number One Thing On Their Bucket List. The second person writes the Name of the Person (Living or Dead) that they would most like to have a meal with. The third person writes down the Greatest Gift they ever got. I will get the first one fairly quickly. When I come to the second person...I will seem stumped...unable to connect with them. I may allude to what they've written...but in such a general way that it's very, very vague. I will ask them questions like "Is English your native language? I'm having a hard time putting the words and concepts together." "Were there TWO people you had in mind for this?" I will ask whatever questions seem appropriate for that volunteer. I want the audience to see me grasping at straws...even maybe stalling for time...because I am simply not getting the identity of the person they are considering. I want them to SEE me failing. Why? Well...it's obvious that I can do this. They've just seen me do a full show...and I've had no trouble with the Bucket List. I will be silent for a period of time. (Never underestimate the power of SILENCE in an act....which is something else I discuss in Sharpshooter.) My body language will tell the audience that, while I am working hard...I am just not getting my audience member's thought. Finally I will admit defeat -- and explain that if this were a magic show, I would be able to get every answer. But it's not a magic show...I'll talk briefly about the fact that some people are easier to read than others. In short I will say everything I WOULD say if I were reading minds for real and simply could not get a word or person. The majority of the audience at this point understands, at least on an intellectual level, how horrible it must be like to fail in front of a live audience. I will move onto the third person and begin working with their reveal. As I 'circle' the reveal (yeah...discussed in Sharpshooter again. Sorry...) I will begin to speak very softly, like I am working to draw out their Great Gift. Speaking softly is important because I will suddenly turn instantly to the person I couldn't read and say very loudly "You are thinking of BATMAN!" as though it has come to me in a flash. I am excited to make the reveal and inevitably someone squawks in surprise. This always produces sincere applause and laughter. It is a great moment where I, the audience and my volunteer are on the exact same page. It took me many shows to get the timing down perfectly but it's a highlight now. This is an example of how the narrative fits the presentation. Anyone else? David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Mick Ayres Special user Hilton Head Island 998 Posts |
It is interesting that conjurers or mentalists who present one mystery after like an assembly line of tricks, will also blow right through the 'magician-in-trouble" moment like it's a throw-away. I got in real trouble once while performing...one of those moments that's burned into the humiliation section of your brain for all eternity. I got out of the situation out of what felt like sheer dumb luck; but, more importantly, I later recalled in detail how I behaved in that embarrassing moment, and rehearsed that same body language over and over so later, when I acted like I was in trouble, the guests honest-to-God believed I was. For the record, it ALWAYS requires that I keep my mouth shut and do a slow count of ten before moving forward with the presentation. Hope this tidbit helps.
Mick
THE FIVE OBLIGATIONS OF CONJURING: Study. Practice. Script. Rehearse. Perform. Drop one and you're done.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
Since I only perform casually, I have the luxury of framing my material how I want. I look for ways to make it about the participant, not me. I love finding ways to say “look at the amazing thing YOU can do,” not “look how amazing I am.”
If I were to perform on stage, I believe I would write the script as if I had only a finite amount of energy and I was trying to give all I can before the repercussions were too much. Probably mental fatigue and headaches would be my issues. I don’t do blood. I’m going to think about this because it is a really interesting subject. Patrick |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Over the decades I have varied my approach according to what the audience expects - my best initial perception and the ability to shift gears if that changes.
My objective is never "to entertain" as much as encourage the entertainment of new ideas, improbabilities and impossibilities. (from their perspective, culture and education) I never claim to have nay special powers of a paranormal type, but rather enhanced innate abilities through awareness, practice and courage. I prefer to have members of the audience participate in demonstrations in which they demonstrate enhanced abilities -- especially telepathy and empathy. I also like to demonstrate little known scientific quirks that anyone can do that appear "more than normal." Not mentalism per se, but mental based functions that seem impossible. I guess I attempt to create conditions under which seemingly paranormal events will occur - with me the tour guide or orchestra leader. My view is based on several observations about people: 1) everyone wants to be more than they are right now. They view any demonstration of inexplicable phenomena as a ray of hope, trickery involved or not. 2) people wallow in fear, some real but most imagined. The greatest fear is being 'found out' to be a fraud in life, or being other than what they pretend to be. 3) people like being "in the lime light," i.e. they will participate in anything silly, weird or seemingly impossible as long as they have someone to blame for the results. They will take full credit for what works even if they had no part in it, while ignoring anything that does not, or blaming someone for the failure. Thus, the real objective of any performance of the mystic arts, (conjuring, mentalism, mental magic, psychic readings, dousing, etc) is "the story told after." I always work to teach each observer what story to tell. 4) people coming to see a mentalist perform already "believe" in some form of paranormal ability and are looking for validation more than limits of condition. 5) all mentalism demonstrations involving another person is at risk of "crossing the line" as far as privacy, permission, fear, cultural bias or dogma of some form. While they may readily agree to be involved, or applaud enthusiastically because of #3, their inner thoughts may be other than what you expect or recognize. Any performance of mine has the potential of having an affect on another person. I respect them as an individual and as a person with possible abilities greater than mine. All this means that I rarely perform and never "on demand." When I do give a presentation or demonstration it is for the sole purpose of creating a memorable event that meets their expectations and exceeds their imagination. To accomplish this I may do something "mental based," or conjuring, or tell a story, or a weird science demonstration. Some say this means I am not really a mentalist. ......... It might help readers here if I explain things I will not do as a mentalist. 1) I never do predictions. That requires the observer to hold two believed things simultaneously; that I have some paranormal ability and that the future is pre-ordained. I don't want them confused or befuddled about what I am demonstrating. I also am student of legitimate divination methods thought history and cultures. I do not pretend at doing this in private or on stage. 2) I never demonstrate for entertainment those "other than normal" abilities I am gifted with. I can locate metal underground with bent coat hangers. I can change my skin temperature at will. +- 4 degreesF. I can tell when a person has an internal illness or is pregnant before they show obvious signs. ( I have saved lives and won't play with it.) 3) I am very adept at Helstomism since age 15. I extend beyond the normal demonstration in relying on group/gestalt input or empathy to produce results far beyond a standard contact demonstration. But, I will only perform under strict conditions and setting the allow for optimal participation and focus. This is very close to real mind reading and involves no trickery beyond the knowledge that I can subconsciously receive cues, directions and hints from physical and empathic sources. Last time I found such a setting was 1998. 4) I never use standard playing cards as a prop, nor any item or theme connected with gambling. Both of these say "trick." I am certainly not above trickery and guile in a demonstration. I just don't want to plant the seed in their expectations. 5) I do not ask people's names or try and make friends with them. The theme is paranormal abilities and a memory of the extraordinary events they will tell to their grandchildren about (story). I don't even care if they know my name. Of course, I am not trying for repeat books or income. I never charge money for a performance; mentalism or conjuring or divination. 6) I never use a sleight or subterfuge that is not mastered to automaticity. A conjurer can get away with dropped gimmick or sloppy slight. It is just for fun, right - wink! For a mentalist any foulup can be fatal - not just for that demonstration but the entire show. Any mentalist must be better at palming and ditching than a conjuror. Regardless of your position on the argument of mentalism vs magician, the biggest error is for a poor conjuror to shift to mental based effects because they are unwilling to put in the work to be good at either. I am , however, always willing to help others achieve their goals in the mystic arts. Each of you is an audience too, and I feel that you have abilities you have never even realized or appreciated.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On Aug 3, 2020, Mr. Woolery wrote: Interesting thoughts Patrick. Sounds like you would be in pain much of the performance from such a strenuous position. One of the problems I see with "look at the amazing thing you can do" is how phony or disingenuous it actually is. So many mentalists that I've seen do this use this premise BUT without ever explaining HOW they did it (completing the premise). What could be a solid premise almost always comes off as the helper in a magic show that holds a sponge ball only to open their hand to have 30 sponge balls pop out all over the place. They have no idea how it happened (other than it being a trick from the magician.) In mentalism, it would need to be explained and plausible HOW they did it, not just saying or claiming they did it. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
What happened to "things we can do" -- of a paranormal experience being something that occurs because of group energy or cooperation?
telepathy is not a game of solitaire, and much better as two-way-communication, at lease=t in getting permission to read another's mind or influence a choice. I disagree with Mindpro's "phony and disingenuous" depiction, though that may be his experience. A performance based on respect and trust never has that problem. While any demonstration of "other than normal" by either performer or spectator needs to be a "plausible impossibility" I don't see why any detailed explanation of How is required. Inexplicable phenomena occur in people's lives all of the time -- and performers can be successful in pretending at it in mentalism and conjuring. If it can be explained it is science and not magic not matter how entertaining. If a person can regularly and predictably bend spoon it is "normal" for them and not paranormal anything. To create a condition under which another person can achieve this is wondrous and an indication of "I can be more than I am right now" enthusiasm/hope. Too much explanation can minimize the thrill and even credibility. One example is the incredible effect Falcon Eye. One volunteer reads the mind of another under controlled, but entertaining circumstances. One of them has no idea of how this happened but is enthralled by their participation in the event. The other knows exactly how it happened but will never tell - even to the extent of psychologically blanking out the memory. They want to remember the incredible mystical experience and do not wish their "moment in the spotlight" destroyed with facts. Regardless, in may come down to understanding what the audience expects and finding a way to exceed that in any story told after.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
Huh, I must have left out some of what I intended to say. Hazards of using my phone, I guess.
Ken, telepathy is a great example. And on stage it would be a very good way to build up the other person, as the subtext is “look at the cool thing we can do by working together.” Mindpro, I think the truncation of what I intended to say resulted in a minor misunderstanding. I don’t mean that I would play it as everything I do is painful, though I see it was my own lack of clarity that makes it look that way. More like everything I do actually takes real effort and by the end of it, I’d be exhausted. Used up. Imagine a professional athlete who is exhibiting his/her skills. If the athlete is wiped out by the end, staggering, panting, sweating, we recognize that we just saw a world-class exhibition of physical skill and it cost something for the athlete. If we see him/her casually saunter off the field, the skills are still impressive, but I don’t feel I’ve truly seen the best, all-out effort this athlete can give. My intent was to say that in scripting a show, I would hope to create the impression that what the audience saw was my best, no holds barred, everything I’ve got effort. But this is hypothetical, not something I’ve done. I’m thinking through what I currently believe I’d want to do. In regards to saying “look what you can do,” that’s because I have the luxury to do so. I’m a casual performer, not a paid one. I have other options open to me. Here’s a simple example. I really like Ian Rowland’s Mind Wave, which is an examinable variation on B’Wave. The effect is that I play an imagination game with the other person, who then makes choices that turn out to match the cards on the table. My subtext is “your intuition is powerful and you can do amazing things.” I wouldn’t do this on stage. So far, I’ve only ever done it 1-1, not even with a spouse/partner/kid looking on. It is a different sort of thing. I want it to feel special and personal. That’s a luxury of doing this solely for fun. If performing for a large audience, I would have to think very differently about it all. Since I don’t have that experience, I can’t comment on it beyond the hypothetical. I think I’m a little clearer here. I hope so, anyway. Patrick |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
I realized I hadn’t addressed the point about being disingenuous. I can see where you are coming from, but I don’t think it is any more ingenuous to claim I possess “mind power” or similar that puts me above the audience. I’m not an exalted master from another plane of existence. I’m a guy who loves playing with the potential of the human mind. If I leave you looking at four cards on the table and you correctly picked the reversed one, the mystery is how you did that. If I had you reverse a card and I picked it, the mystery is how I did it. Neither is, strictly speaking, completely honest. But I prefer the first. Personal choice.
There are things that can be done in mentalism that are completely without dishonesty. There is often still some concealed methodology (CMR, in which one doesn’t explain ideomotor response; mnemonics in which you don’t explain pegs or other systems in use - no dishonesty, but the methods are not put out in the open), but it is possible to perform without lying. However, a heck of a lot of mental performances do have a significant layer of deception. I just realized that I hijacked David’s topic. David, I’m sorry. I’ll try to answer your original question here in the hope that I haven’t screwed things up too much. I like to present myself as someone who knows some really interesting things. And who would like to show them to others. I’m not claiming powers, but I am demonstrating hard-to-explain things that I can’t really understand myself. I just think they are fascinating and I hope my enthusiasm carries over to other people. Patrick |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
What a cool thread to read through! Especially as a beginner, this feels more like reading a book on mentalism then a forum page, thanks to all the pros that contribute!
Even tough I am fairly new to mentalism I think I can add a little something that hasnt been written yet and could be important for other beginners: Whatever explanation you select for yourself (for example mind reading, body language expert or whatever) you should atleast partially believe in it yourself. If you think a body can be read to the extend of where you can almost certainly know if the other one is lying, then this might be something you could perform in a realistic way. But if you think from the start that even lie detector tests are ******** and body language is unreliable, then your audience will sense this and you wont be believable. (Unless you are a really good actor). Another thing is that most of the time it will get less believable the more abbilities you have. Imagine someone walks up to you and says: "I can read body language pretty well" Well that's certainly possible. Then he goes on "Also I can see the future" Seems odd, but maybe he learned one and was born with the other. "Oh did I mention I can also move things with my mind, influence you to think what I want and see your past?" Now it just gets ridiculous. Now to developing the persona: As I wrote in another thread I acted for quite a while. What (good) actors do, is they think of a personality for their role. What they get is most of the time just the script, no background story or character treats. As a mentalist you play a role, so you must figure out who you are. Try and walk through your room normal. Now do it again and keep attention on body posture, head movement, where your hands are and everything else. Now the same as your mentalist role. He will for sure walk different. For sure he has a good amount of self esteem, so shoulders back, head up. Now work through every movement your body does. Maybe your persona has a certain tick? The best actor I ever played with frequently thought of a certain small habit, like blinking unsynchronized or licking his lips, of course this has to be something that doesn't put your audience of (so don't pick your nose on stage ). You cant imagine how much this added to his role. At the end I have a little anecdote connected to "giving an explanation". My cousin once showed me a derren brown clip from trick of the mind where he "influences" some advertising workers to create the same add poster he did. The effect was cool and all but a the end derren put a fake explanation of how he did it. My cousin already saw the video and when the effect ended he said something along the lines of: "Now watch how he did it, that's even more insane!" Keep in mind he is as much as a laid person as one can be and didn't know then that I was also interested in mentalism. So this was a conversation between to laid people. So yes, a good fake explanation can be even better then the effect itself. So you should always think about what phenomenon you display (thats an advice from cervier, thanks by the way ) I hope this was usefull for some people |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12941 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2020, George Hunter wrote: The best vid by Luke. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
One possible powerful character choice:
You mindread because it feels good. Like when you discover a new best friend. Your thoughts are in tune--as if you always knew each other. That pleasure. Let the audience experience you experiencing that pleasure of knowing another.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 4, 2020, Dylenium wrote: This is what this forum used to be like with many professional basically holding class so newer guys could learn. This was before all the pros were driven out of here and the magic kiddies took over with lack of respect for the pros, the art, or the industry. I strongly suggest that you go back through the archives of this forum as you will find a master class on mentalism. Stay away from effects and focus on foundational aspects, the differences between magic and mentalism, the principles of mentalism, types of mentalism, coming to mentalism from other mystery arts and not through magic, the mystery arts, doing mentalism and mystery arts for real, and psi related content. I am confident that if you are serious about learning mentalism these will be most helpful, just disregard the detractors, know-it-alls, and theorists. As you can see, theories are already creeping in here by non-performers or the rare or occassional performers. |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
At the very least, I don’t try to hide that I’m not a pro. That’s gotta count for something, man.
There are still some solid pros around here. As an example, the gentleman who started this topic. I would argue that the question of where your abilities come from is a valid question, no matter what your experience or background. I also think that the difference in performance environment between amateurs like me and pros like David allows for different approaches. Which can also be interesting to discuss. One of my favorite things that David does is come on here and post a question or an anecdote because he is so good at finding things that make folks think about details. Patrick |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I agree
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