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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Max Major ouch.... why not to use camera tricks. (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

psychicbartender
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Waukesha
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Loved watching max on tv recently then I stumbled upon this over on reddit. It’s cringe to read. Why do people think it’s ok to use stooges. If you can’t do it live. Don’t do it at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/agt/comments/ig......e=iossmf
Greg Arce
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I've said that for YEARS for even live shows. If you believe that your spectator or spectators, won't talk when you use them as an instant stooge or hidden pre-show or dual reality, you are kidding yourself.

I've told this story here many times, but it needs repeating: When I first moved to Hollywood I lived a half a block from the Magic Castle. I was practically there every night. I also made it a habit to sit in on any mentalist that was doing a show there. I also tried to blend in as just another person. I started noticing something: whenever the performer used dual reality, hidden pre-show or instant stooging, the person or persons used would almost immediately tell the crowd what happened... and not just their friends and family.

Usually, a small group would come up to the person and ask stuff like, "So you just thought that word at the moment?" or "Why did you decide to draw that?" Or "Did he know you? How could he know your mother's maiden name?" and the person would tell them exactly what happened.

Guess what? Now, most of them painted the entire show with that method... even if it was the only time it was used. So if they heard the person had been talked to before the show they would say stuff like "Ah, he probably talked to all those people he used before the show" or "I bet he had stuff written in different places where the person could read it and we couldn't see it" etc. They now assumed it all worked that way.

So if you think people don't talk, well, unless you don't care if they do, they do. And think about how much worse it's become presently. EVERYONE wants to be a star on their own website, Facebook page, etc. Don't you think they go on there to look cool by saying, "I was at Mr. Amazing's show last night. He used me for a TRICK. He told me before the show to pick the 8 of Diamonds"

So keep fooling yourselves. There are only a couple of dual reality effects I do and I never do hidden pre-show. I always have the person use to tell the audience exactly what happened before and they are still fooled because I put in subtleties and touches that makes the person remember it in a different way. And the only dual reality effects I do are PK Touch and Sankey's Memory Lapse. Why? Because those are effects where the one spectator tells the audience what he experienced and the entire audience tells him he's wrong because they saw something else. Think about it.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
David Todd
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2020, Greg Arce wrote:
I've said that for YEARS for even live shows. If you believe that your spectator or spectators, won't talk when you use them as an instant stooge or hidden pre-show or dual reality, you are kidding yourself.



Agreed. This is why I'm skeptical about conspiracy theories ... not that many people are capable of keeping a secret.
Dannydoyle
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You can't keep a secret between 2 people unless one of them is dead.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Greg Arce
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On Sep 1, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
You can't keep a secret between 2 people unless one of them is dead.


And the other one is mute.
Smile
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Ray Pierce
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For whatever reason, it seems he got on the viewers bad side as they are calling him out yet again.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/agt-......064.html

To be fair, knowing the methodology he was using, I think it was an honest mistake. He simply misheard the viewer say 14 rather than 13. He could have hit either one as most of you know. It just goes to show how his sullied reputation from the previous episode is haunting him now.
Ray Pierce
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magicalaurie
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Did you see the show, Ray? I think he might very well be the only one who "misheard" 14. I think, maybe Smile , it was the girl who called 13 who made an honest mistake. Regardless, if he's using stooges, I'd say he set himself up. Maybe he's gained some insight.
Stanyon
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Why is Max barefooted?
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
Mindpro
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That was the beginning of his downfall as even the judges stated disliking of it.
Mac_Stone
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2020, magicalaurie wrote:
Did you see the show, Ray? I think he might very well be the only one who "misheard" 14. I think, maybe Smile , it was the girl who called 13 who made an honest mistake. Regardless, if he's using stooges, I'd say he set himself up. Maybe he's gained some insight.


The girl absolutely could have named any number she wanted. Max made the mistake.

The fact that the roulette number was also 13 is a coincidence.
magicalaurie
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Thank you for that information. I'll need to think about this a little more now. Smile
Ray Pierce
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Yes, there wasn't a force so he just misheard the girl. This method was all done after the fact.
Ray Pierce
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Dylenium
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I am kind off surprised by the reactions this got. I mean even if the one number would be incorrect it would be impressive. He predictet the rest of the numbers including one of the numbers of the people at home and predictet where the roulette spin would end. I know many mentalists that do mistakes on purpose so it seems more believable, why is he being hated for getting the one number wrong? Also how can no one imagine that he actually did hear the number wrong but that he must have been "cheating" and "gaslighting" the audience into believing it was 14.
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On Sep 20, 2020, Dylenium wrote:
I am kind off surprised by the reactions this got.


Ultimately, this seems to be following up to his previous week where there was MUCH discussion online of his PSW with the home audience. Evidently this little bit of information got out and exploded online. That in turn got expanded to this week where his detractors "assumed" that this little girl (whom he MUST have set up in advance) said the wrong number so he was covering up in some way for that.

The reality is that for those of us who know the method... we know she wasn't set up and in fact any number could have been fairly named, it was just an innocent mistake. If it wasn't for the exposure in the previous outing, I doubt it would have mattered to so many.
Ray Pierce
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Mac_Stone
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When mentalists use mistakes to make their feats appear more credible they do so by acknowledging the mistake, not bulldozing past it hoping the audience won’t notice.
Greg Arce
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I've used my mistakes to take things over the top. I've even purposely made mistakes within a set for the same reason. BUT if you are doing just one thing then you better make sure it works. I'm assuming it's what everybody's been saying: he just misheard her.

C'est la vie!

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Dave Scribner
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As Ray said, I think some of this criticism is coming on the coattails of the previous performance questions. With that said, for this performance, I just think it was the confusion that spurred this discussion. I'm not totally sure of how lottery ticket works so I looked at the performance through a spectators eyes.

Max had 4 numbers selected by judges and 1 by the audience. All of the numbers selected were black. Now the 6th number is selected and while all the other numbers are black, this one is red and is controversial because I heard 13 and Max said 14. Did she misspeak or did Max mishear? Regardless, 14 went up on the board. Then the wheel is spun and 13 actually comes up. What a coincidence. The girl clearly said 13 in her selection and now 13 comes up on the wheel. Now all the numbers match the lottery ticket and the billboard prediction.

It was just confusing as Howie originally stated. The combination of the "incorrect" number being named and then the coincidental number selection from the wheel, just made it seem a little contrived and forced. Max was performing in the finals of AGT and there should not have been any hiccups or confusion. We're all magicians and we've all had mistakes happen but considering where he was performing, every possible contingency should have been worked out and logical "outs" ready just in case.
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