The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Derren Brown's Ambitious Card Routine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
cardiac
View Profile
Loyal user
Reading, U.K.
250 Posts

Profile of cardiac
I was intrigued to read in the excellent 'Absolute Magic' Derren's routine whereby the old standard ACR is given a bit of a weird twist. I kind of understand the routine as it's written out up to the point where the second card is not found in the deck and then appears to have swapped places with the first card. The workings are the standard ambitious card moves and (apparently) a switch at the end of the routine.

Has anyone worked this routine out and used it? I'd be grateful for some ideas on the structure and most importantly the switch at the end.

Thanks,


Simon
amens
View Profile
Regular user
109 Posts

Profile of amens
Do you know the page?

I just can't find it *shame*!


Thanks,

amens
cardiac
View Profile
Loyal user
Reading, U.K.
250 Posts

Profile of cardiac
Ummm... 95 (I'll just go and check that !)


Posted: Jun 9, 2004 11:19am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, p. 94 to 96.

I particularly liked the idea of turning into a 'sucker effect' whereby the magician loses a little control of this pesky card which is supposed to be lost in the middle of the deck.

Just a nicer presentation perhaps than the usual 'look how clever I am, the card keeps popping up on top' routine.
Chris Thibault
View Profile
Elite user
Massachusetts
469 Posts

Profile of Chris Thibault
Sounds nice. I'll have to check it out. I haven't read it in a while. Thanks!
-Chris
amens
View Profile
Regular user
109 Posts

Profile of amens
As a switch you could use the Curry Turnover Change (?), a simple top change or a visual retention change.

Or a double lift Smile
owen.daniel
View Profile
Inner circle
England
1048 Posts

Profile of owen.daniel
Great routine...I do not perform it, but how it reads it sounds great, and the idea of it is really interesting.
owen
STFC
View Profile
New user
73 Posts

Profile of STFC
Routine sounds great. keep up the good work
Stay Happy and everything will be all right.
Jack Norris
scarbo
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of scarbo
Sounds like a variation of 'Transposition Extraordinary' in Expert Card Technique.
Matt Malinas
View Profile
Inner circle
Romania
1342 Posts

Profile of Matt Malinas
Iu like this routine and I performed it a few times. I find it interesting but I have developed over the years a little routine of my own. I took what I liked most out of other magician's routines and made a strong ambitious card routine. brown's routine was one of them

-Matt
Your One Stop Booze Abusing Comedy Magic Show!
J.Dunaway
View Profile
Loyal user
241 Posts

Profile of J.Dunaway
What reason would you put behind grabbing the card up for a top change?
Not a challenge, by any means... Curiosity.
Dan McLean
View Profile
Inner circle
Behind you
1230 Posts

Profile of Dan McLean
I was a bit disappointed to see this topic disappear because it has points of interest and could go in several directions. So let's activate it again.
Derren Brown's routine offers a solution on how to frame and how to end probably the most performed and most problematic card routine today. Ambitious Card has been extensively commented on by many in The Café including Paul Chosse, who has hinted but never tipped his solution.
Brown's "Magician in Trouble" version works well but you trade one set of problems for another. As W.S. Duncan notes in "Tubthumping" - you want to buy this book by the way - "I suspect too the audiences frequently know what's going to happen in a magic trick before it does, and that's sad." In Brown's routine, the audience will know that second card will become the ambitious card.
Unless you take steps.
Duncan gives his solution to this situation regarding another routine, Jennings' excellent "Mystery Card." Again I urge you to check out Duncan's work (No, he's not paying me and I've never met him.)
You also have the practical issue of how to switch the card on the table. Brown gives no solution. Indeed I suspect this is not a routine that he actually performs.
The methods mentioned such as the Curry, double lift, top change, etc won't work for me. I have an aversion to doing sleights when the heat is on. And many times I don't have a table. I'm now a hobbyist so I'm usually performing in someone's kitchen when I inevitably get a deck shoved at me during a party.
My solution was to turn the situation on its head and NOT put the card on the table.
That made life easier. Having the card sticking out of my pocket or in a spectator's hand opened up a lot more solutions.
Very curious what others think.
D
Jonathan P.
View Profile
Inner circle
Belgium
1482 Posts

Profile of Jonathan P.
Quote:
On 2007-01-06 16:56, Dan McLean wrote:
As W.S. Duncan notes in "Tubthumping" - you want to buy this book by the way - "I suspect too the audiences frequently know what's going to happen in a magic trick before it does, and that's sad."


Why do you (if you agree with Duncan) find that sad. Isn't it great to have people know what will happen and make it happen nevertheless without letting them have a clue on the "how" that could happen? Of course, the trick shoudn't be structured as a challenge, and let you do the "how" without having the heat on it.
But the fact that the spectators know that the ambitious card will rise again, and they see it on the top again despite the fact that they swear that they saw it in the middle one second before, I find it nice.
If they wouldn't have known before, they'll probably think I took them by surprise.
Jonathan.
Dan McLean
View Profile
Inner circle
Behind you
1230 Posts

Profile of Dan McLean
I completely agree with Duncan.
It's of course subjective but for me magic is surprise.
If the audience gets ahead of you, no matter how impossible the effect, I believe part of the impact is lost. This of course makes routines like coins across and Invisible Palm problematic because the audience knows what will happen to the last coin or card. Now you're have a challenge situation - they have one last chance to catch you - which I try to avoid.
Sure, I have bullet-proof routines where no laymen will catch me but I avoid them. I find they create an atmosphere that slops over into subsequent effects. I much prefer my audience feel they'll never know where I'm headed so they should just relax and enjoy the ride.
wsduncan
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3618 Posts

Profile of wsduncan
People who dislike magic usually say that it makes them feel inadequate* because they can’t “figure it out.”

People seldom like being fooled. Conversely, most folks love being surprised. You can do both and entertain them, but if you neglect the use of surprise in your magic you weaken the overall experience of the audience.

I should point out that in my Ambitious Card routine (in Tribute) there is very little surprise. It's a "social" presentation, not a "look what I can do" presentation.

The trick in question (in Tubthumping) was one that had an impossible location sort of ending but it is usually presented in such a way that most intelligent spectators will guess the ending… which weakens the possible effect.

* - sadly, many people perform magic so that they can make others feel inferior.
Jonathan P.
View Profile
Inner circle
Belgium
1482 Posts

Profile of Jonathan P.
Of course, magic is suprise, meaning that a magician can make things which are very surprising and that one couldn't have tought of.

But when you talk about surprise, the thing that comes to my mind is the fact that, for example, you do an ambitious card routine, and boom, the ambitious card becomes a Jumbo card. Yes, this will cause surprise, but it has no meaning with the effect.
But, in the other hand, you can tell them that you will make the card rise again, but with a bend in the card (pop-up move) so that they can follow it at every second. Of course, there won't be any surprise in what will happen but (to speak with Ortiz) suspense rather than surprise. "Will that thing happen?" Of course they know what will happen, but it's so good to see it happen while being sure that's impossible.

Just to clarify my position regarding the "surprise" aspect.
Jonathan.
DStachowiak
View Profile
Inner circle
Baltimore, MD
2158 Posts

Profile of DStachowiak
Quote:
On 2007-01-06 20:28, wsduncan wrote:
People who dislike magic usually say that it makes them feel inadequate* because they can’t “figure it out.”

People seldom like being fooled. Conversely, most folks love being surprised. You can do both and entertain them, but if you neglect the use of surprise in your magic you weaken the overall experience of the audience.

* - sadly, many people perform magic so that they can make others feel inferior.


I couldn't agree more.
I have always found the pellet trick, using whatever is handy, peanuts, mints, matches or whatever to be a great ice-breaker. I avoid the usual "You weren't paying attention" sort of patter, because first of all, it both insults and challenges the spectator to "figure it out".
I prefer to do "One, two in this hand, and the third in my pocket , should leave 2, but it's really 3, that's Magic!
I find that this difference in patter allows the spectator to relax, come off guard, and enjoy the magic without feeling like they are stupid if they can't figure it out.
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
Steve Martin
View Profile
Inner circle
1119 Posts

Profile of Steve Martin
I don't think Derren meant his description to be a complete routine to be followed exactly. He was simply giving an alternative way of thinking about the motivation for an AC effect. The underlying idea being to move away from "performer in control" to "magic manifesting itself". Anyone wanting to explore that concept using an AC effect would need to develop a specific routine that works for them.
Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein
PapaG
View Profile
Special user
740 Posts

Profile of PapaG
I'm trying to adapt the 'ambitious card = magician as sucker' idea a bit further. Here's some of my ideas (and some questions).

The magician could be so p!$$ed off at the constant appearance of the signed card that he tears up the card so it can't return again: cue a torn and restored card effect segueing back into the ambitious card.

The misbehaved antics of the signed card have made the magician's head ache: cue Paul Gertner's Headache Trick as the finale.

All I need now is to perfect a Tony Hancock persona...

Couple of questions:

Is there a torn and restored card effect out there that would be usable? It needs to leave the signed card without creases and back in the deck (so that the ambitious sequences may continue). Also, preferably, the torn pieces should vanish.

Where on earth can I get Anadin tins from (for the Gertner effect)?
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5061 Posts

Profile of entity
Sometimes a "challenge" presentation is perfectly acceptable, especially if it leads to a surprising magical ending. The substitution trunk is, in effect, a challenge illusion. Impossible conditions are set up, and then the performers surmount the obstacles and create a magical effect.

Making an AC routine progressively more impossible is, in effect, challenging the audience. In my own routine, when the only possible explanation becomes that there must be multiples of the same card, I hand the pack to the participants. They all dive to examine the pack, only to find it ordinary, although missing the chosen, signed card, which I produce from my wallet, pocket, stuck to my forehead, whatever.

Brown's purpose was to show how a standard effect might be changed to create a different emotional response from the spectators, and not, I think, to say that challenge effects are bad or are unsound theatrically.

- entity
PapaG
View Profile
Special user
740 Posts

Profile of PapaG
Of course 'challenge' effects can work.

But I think that this alternate presentation could be more satisfying, allowing more focus on acting the role of magician-thwarted, creating a sense of drama and character (albeit a bitter and cynical one...)

Derren Brown's point is that without the true elements of drama - conflict and character - magic can often just be 'look at me' and therefore annoying rather than entertaining.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Derren Brown's Ambitious Card Routine (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.12 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL