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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Gravity vs non-gravity flipper coins (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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karnak
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So, is the ONLY actual functional difference between these two basic different types of flipper gaffs (never mind the optional additional use of magnets, or differences regarding whether the groove is exposed on the outer rim of the insert vs. hidden further inside it), basically down to the type of band used?

A very snug & tight orthodontic rubber band for the automatically self-snap-shutting version, as opposed to a looser-fitting rubber band (or elastic cord) for the gravity-style model?

In which case, in principle, one model could be changed to the other sort, simply by changing the type of elastic band used?

Am I understanding this correctly?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Jerry
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I would like to know also. As this is the only type of coin that I don't have and was interested in getting one.

What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks.
Jerry
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Standard Flipper
The standard flipper coins that we stock are both inexpensive and well made. Oxymoron!

Gravity Flipper
A gravity flipper is one in which the insert piece opens more easily. You can open this coin with one hand.

Pro Flipper
A “pro” flipper is one of superior quality, with even more careful precision.

Eddy Taytelbaum and Flip Postma collaborated to make the Flipper Coin, based on the idea of using a folding coin to look like two coins for a Coins Through Table routine.

Bob Swadling later refined the manufacturing process and then proceeded to make his own coins and sell them to magicians.*

*Source: Vanishing Inc. This is on public display, on their website.

Now what about the magnetic type? No rubber band or dental dam or elastic?
tbaer
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I know the standard flipper takes some effort to open, you sort of have to flick it open while the gravity flipper takes no effort at all. The gravity flipper has no rubber band in the insert edge while the standard flipper does.

For the coin under the glass routine, you probably want to use a standard flipper, not the gravity flipper. You want the coin to spring shut. And for a routine where you want the coin to lay open flat, you wouldn't want to use the standard flipper. Each have their value.

It would make logical sense that if you use a looser rubber band on the standard flipper it would not be as springy, but I'm not sure it would actually lay open flat, but I could be wrong. And if it does, will it still be a workable coin?
Jerry
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Tbaer, thank you.

Do you know anything about the magnetic version?
Nev Blenk
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2020, Jerry wrote:
Tbaer, thank you.

Do you know anything about the magnetic version?


I believe the magnetic flipper locks shut and only pops open when another shimmed coin is placed on it. I don't own one so appologies if I'm incorrect.

Nev
tbaer
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2020, Jerry wrote:
Tbaer, thank you.

Do you know anything about the magnetic version?


No I don't. I don't have the magnetic version.
Al Desmond
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Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co
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Quote:
On Oct 20, 2020, Nev Blenk wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 19, 2020, Jerry wrote:
Tbaer, thank you.

Do you know anything about the magnetic version?


I believe the magnetic flipper locks shut and only pops open when another shimmed coin is placed on it. I don't own one so appologies if I'm incorrect.

Nev


No, it doesn't lock shut because of the magnet, it doesn't lock shut at all.

The magnet is there so ...

1) you can ditch the coin if you are set up with another magnet in you back pants pocket. You place the flipper against your pocket, it stays there.

2) For use with a shimmed shell, the flipper will stay inside the shell, a light tap will drop it. This set up is used in some routines.

But it doesn't lock.
inigmntoya
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Lots of variations so lots of "right" answers above, that are also "wrong" depending on which flipper you're talking about.

Think of each feature as being independent:

Gravity / "traditional" or "standard" (the original question posed here) - The "traditional" flipper (original designs) snap shut with a tight band. You have to shake them open and catch the flipper part before it closes again to keep it open. When laid flat on a smooth surface they will snap shut on their own, which allows them to be used in certain effects. A gravity flipper has a less tight band, will lay flat on your hand, a table, etc. and NOT snap shut on its own unless given a light toss in the air, a shake in cupped hands, etc. This makes it (IMHO) more versatile than a traditional flipper and generally easier to handle.
In general, you can convert a traditional flipper to a gravity flipper by using a less strong band (or skip rubber bands altogether and use elastic beading cord and adjust the closing strength to your liking).
I've done this to A LOT of flippers and flipper-like gimmicks.

Internal or external band - As noted above, early flippers were a shell over a folding coin. The traditional flipper is still basically that design with the groove for the band visible along the outer edge of the insert coin. The first gravity flippers (which I believe were made by Todd Lassen) in addition to having a less strong closing action, also happened to have an INTERNAL band, allowing the edge of both the outer and inner parts to look normal (no groove). There are a number of mechanical approaches to this type of flipper. Most are a two-part construction -- a groove covered by a metal shim glued to the insert to keep the band in place. Todd's design is superior -- it's one single, solid piece - there's simply nothing to come apart...

Magnetic (or not) - like it says....some flippers have magnets in them. Useful for holdouts, cleaning up using other magnets (e.g. Raven), etc.

Locking (or not) - like it says...some flippers lock shut. Others will just flop open. A traditional flipper can be considered as sort of a locking one - you have to know where to hold it and try hard to get it to open on you. Some flippers lock using magnets, requiring the use of a magnetic coin (or some other magnet) to get the insert to pop open.

"Pro" flipper - this has no specific meaning. It's purely a marketing term, though often associated with internal band models, usually promoting they offer a "real edge".

Next Generation Flipper (NGF) - a specific marketing term used by Mark Mason / Bob Swadling to describe their flipper design that uses an elastic cord vs a rubber band, and is designed so that the cord can be replaced without having to unglue the small piece of the insert from the shell - a step that is usually a bit of a hassle when replacing bands with other flipper designs.

Now, any given flipper may be some (almost any) combination of the above.

For example, the Double Deception Deluxe* flippers:

Are gravity flippers in that they will lay flat (they do not snap shut on their own if set on a flat smooth surface)
Are MAGNETIC flippers.
Are LOCKING flippers. You need the magnetic coin that comes in the set to open them (easily).
Have an external band - no "real" edge
Use the NGF design.

*The original Double Deception flippers were the traditional (snap shut) type, and used the magnet not to lock (the tight band took care of that), but to enable them to be opened during the routine without having to do the "shake and catch" thing. I have one and replaced the band with elastic cord (changed "traditional" to "gravity"), shimmed the shell portion (to add back the "locking" feature, now magnetically locking), so now it behaves the like "Deluxe" version. All it lacks is the NGF design for band replacement.
karnak
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As a sort of follow-up question, where is the basic literature on flippers (of whatever sort)? For such a now-ubiquitous gaff, it seems conspicuous by its absence in the standard literature. Is this because it is relatively new, and/or under-used?

I haven’t thoroughly double-checked, but I don’t have the impression that flippers are touched upon in the standard works by Bobo or Roth. So is there a gold standard basic text anywhere that covers the use of flipper coins?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Bill Hegbli
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Good coin manufacturers will supply instructions and a routine or two, what and how the coin can be used for. They are not mentioned in any of the old books simply because of the new technology invented in the late 20th century. They could not be made, and no one come up with a use for such a coin. You could say it is a totally new concept brought to coin magic.

Johnson Products came out with their Flipper coin in the 1970's. You showed 2 half dollars over lapping in your fingers. The magician picked up a drinking glass, and showed it empty. The two coins were dropped into the glass, and one penetrated through the bottom of the glass onto the table. One coin still in the glass was poured out into the magician's hand. A simple penetration effect came with the coin. Anything else was up to the purchaser to come up with, and some did over time.
karnak
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Yes, Bill, and that is exactly what I started with: Johnson’s “Visual Coin Penetration,” which requires a traditional (non-gravity, self-snapping shut) flipper. Great effect.

Then more recently, a very kind and generous Café member provided me with a gravity flipper, thereby acquainting me with the other half of the flipper equation. Its rubber band soon became too old/stretched out/unusable, so I followed Inigmntoya’s helpful advice and replaced its orthodontic band myself with an elastic bead cord (a bit of a challenge to do so, with my hands that sometimes have a slight essential tremor), and it is working very well.

I’ve just been wondering what else can be done with flippers of either sort, and haven’t yet seen any really comprehensive or encyclopedic reference works that broadly cover or survey what all can be done with flippers — or in what applications they might be preferable to a simple expanded shell, and why. So just curious as to see what such sources, if any, might exist now.
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Jerry
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May be Craig Petty will do a DVD "Flip Happens".
jim ferguson
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Quote:
On Nov 1, 2020, Bill Hegbli wrote:
They are not mentioned in any of the old books simply because of the new technology invented in the late 20th century. They could not be made





Bill, while the flipper may not have been realised, the technology of the day has nothing to do with it. The individual components (shell and folding coin), were being made, and used, in the late 19th century.





Jim
Jerry
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Quote:
On Nov 2, 2020, Jerry wrote:
May be Craig Petty will do a DVD "Flip Happens".


Actual, I forgot about his "Flip-Out" DVD.
That may help.
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Nov 2, 2020, Jerry wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2020, Jerry wrote:
May be Craig Petty will do a DVD "Flip Happens".


Actual, I forgot about his "Flip-Out" DVD.
That may help.


Yes, there's "Flipped Out", and Dean Dill put out a DVD called "Flip It".

Eric Jones also has a fair bit of work with flipper coins.
Jerry
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Inigmntoya: "I have one and replaced the band with elastic cord"

What elastic do you recommend and what is you source please?
Thank you.
karnak
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Not to speak for Inigmntoya, but he recommended — and I used — “Stretch Magic” brand elastic beading cord, 0.5mm diameter.

I got it from Amazon for about 12 bucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RB......6b1bfbee
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Wravyn
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2020, karnak wrote:
Not to speak for Inigmntoya, but he recommended — and I used — “Stretch Magic” brand elastic beading cord, 0.5mm diameter.

I got it from Amazon for about 12 bucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RB......6b1bfbee


It can also be found in your local craft stores jewelry making section much cheaper.
Jerry
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Many thanks for the information.

jerry
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