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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Skill vs. Reaction (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

BerkleyJL
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Chicago, IL
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In another of the forums, a topic about sponge balls prompted me to bring up an issue here that should be of value to other new magicians.

The audience cannot tell what is easy or difficult to perform. They only know what they see, so if you can produce the same effect for the same reaction with an easy move--do it.

I personally love the easy moves, because I can then concentrate on reading my audience, and hamming things up a bit. Of course, I use more difficult sleights to "disprove" my methods later in the show. For instance, if the audience starts to think I have no ball in my left hand (C&B), I use a Vanish that shows the ball in my left hand.
I need a stage name.

Joe Berkley
Uli Weigel
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Quote:
The audience cannot tell what is easy or difficult to perform. They only know what they see, so if you can produce the same effect for the same reaction with an easy move--do it.

This is one of the many half-truths in magic discussions, and is typically very often just an excuse for laziness and sloppiness.
Peter Marucci
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Berkley JL writes:
Quote:
. . .if you can produce the same effect for the same reaction with an easy move--do it.

Absolutely.

But Uli Weigel suggests that this is:
Quote:
. . .very often just an excuse for laziness and sloppiness.

Possibly.

But as a "big fan" of laziness, I have to agree that the simpler the move the better; first, there is less to be burned at, and second, you can concentrate that much more on the presentation.

And those are two extremely important points.

Remember, hard work pays off sometime in the future, but laziness pays off right now! LOL!
abc
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Quote:
On 2004-06-12 11:21, Peter Marucci wrote:
But Uli Weigel suggests that this is:
Quote:
. . .very often just an excuse for laziness and sloppiness.

Possibly.

But as a "big fan" of laziness, I have to agree that the simpler the move the better;

I am superbly lazy because I do not see the point of trying something very difficult if the exact same effect can be accomplished with a simple sleight.
But, it is very likely that the exact same effect can not be accomplished yet it looks like it has. There are a variety of ways to change a card on a specs hand for example. DL, Paul Curry bottom change or any other bottom change, a top change, a glide, the list goes on and on. The effect is never exactly the same. Why do different magicians use different methods if 99% of the time the audience can only recall the punchline ie the card changed on their hand.
1. To get the effect as effective as possible.
2. To avoid getting burned.
3. To make it easier and easier.
I am all for option 3 though. I can do a variety of card sleights, and so can many other magicians, but the guys that have really impressed me don't always do fancy sleights, they do fancy presentations.
BerkleyJL
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I'm not saying to be lazy. I practice like crazy even the easiest of moves. What I'm saying is, don't disdain an "easy" method of producing an effect and only play the "advanced" moves in your show. The audience will be impressed of course...but usually the reason a move impresses a magician is exactly the thing you don't want the lay audience to know about (i.e. Vernon Wand Spin).
I need a stage name.

Joe Berkley
maniac
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Right on Peter,

The presentation is the thing that will bring the great reactions that make us feel great about what we do.....
Samuel
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Maniac:

Well, another thing that makes someone feel great is when you practice and practice something, and when you try it out, they never see what you did.

I remember when I started practicing the pass, and was getting the knack, I allways fealt that it was so obvious - since I both saw and felt what happened. Then I tried it for a magi friend, saying that I didn't think it would work. Then I did it, and she didn't' know what I did - saying "what will work?" When I then turned over the top card she was like "Wooo, that's crazy man!"

Now THAT felt good Smile
Samuel

Magic is everywhere
Fayaad Manie
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I agree that if you can accomplish something with a simple move, by all means do so. Do not try to over complicate things. Dai Vernon always use to spend a lot of time trying to ELIMINATE moves instead of adding them. However, Certain Changes are more impressive than others. You can use a simple DL or glide to change are card, but then again you could use a more complicated move like the Ed Marlo Snap Change and that looks ten times more impressive.

Also, to learn difficult sleights (useful) gives one that feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment in achieving or mastering something that is extremely difficult to do. Like Samuel says it feels good...and it does. It is definitely for personal satisfaction.

Fayaad Smile
Frank Tougas
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What was that saying about a one way force deck? Oh yeah It is only used by rank amateurs and hardened professionals.

In truth we do the easy way for the sake of our audience (entertainment) and the hard way we do for ourselves, (Pride, growth and accomplishment).

I think laziness should not even be considered as a reason, on a bad day it can really sting of either arrogance or name calling.
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
BerkleyJL
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Wow. I didn't realize what a touchy subject this is. I should make it clear that I said is you can achieve the same effect for the same reaction, I think the easier move is preferable.

Most often, the easier move does not achieve the same effect or reaction. In my experience, the most difficult moves directly contradict the most commonly suspected methods of producing an effect...thereby completely mystifying the audience.

I never thought of using simple moves on the audience as arrogant. If present your performance as, "I can do this and you can't figure it out" then it becomes arrogant. No matter what methods I use, my aim is always to make sure the audience enjoys themselves (and possibly will want me back).
I need a stage name.

Joe Berkley
erniep33
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Marysville, WA
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I agree with you Berkley, if the methods are both indistinguishible, provide the same outcome, and one is an easier sleight, why wouldn't you do the easier one? That would be like telling someone they could either work for 5 years and make a million or win the lottery worth a million. What would you do?
abc
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If the lotto is guaranteed No response but it isn't. So you should utilize sleights where they are applicable and weigh up whether the difference created by using a different sleight, has a bigger impact on the effect in comparison to the difficulty and risks associated with your level of execution of the sleight.
As for the above question though, I 'd wait for the lotto.
erniep33
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Exactly and I totally agree with you abc. If a sleight is more difficult but is going to improve the trick, roll up the sleeves and put in the elbow grease to learn the more difficult sleight. You should make the effect the best you can make it.
Fishsticks
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Greensboro, NC
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I always try to do the easy moves. The hard ones are too hard. They make my hands hurt.
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