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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote:


Has she ever given anything a negative review? She sure seems to be more of a promoter and not a reviewer. Show me any real negative review she made, where she trashes the product completely. Exactly!

Does she get the material sent to her for free? If so, it's an infomercial not a review. Same with Magicorthodoxy(?) etc. Are there any of the YouTube reviewers who aren't being given the stuff for free? If so, they are the only ones you can take remotely seriously. And then it becomes a question of their taste and experience.


Exactly! And that's where you as a potential buyer/user will have to make your own opinion. What's relevant to me is not really the conclusion of a review but how the reviewer arrives to it. So to me it's more a matter of everything else the reviewer has to say around the product, whether the reviewer does a demo as well etc. The conclusion remains his/her opinion, it doesn't mean at all that you would agree!
Ben
goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, tophatter wrote:
Force a card roll it into a sharpie Done !


If that's your takeaway from this product then it's clearly not for you! Smile (and that's really not an attack by the way Smile) Being able to perform this without a deck of cards is one of the things what I find appealing, so yes you could manage to force one specific card without a deck of cards, there are ways to do that, but it will never feel as cleen as having 12 possible free outs imho.

It's funny how it seems like I end up defending this when I'm actually not even sure I will eventually get it... but the reason I'm not sure I will get it is not because Ekat only gives good reviews or because it's a release from the Other Brothers or because the sharpie plot doesn't make sense (I actually like that plot, again personal opinion) but mostly because if I end up needing to carry the equivalent of 6 sharpies on me that doesn't sound very practical...
Ben
pegasus
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6 sharpies? Really? How incredibly unpractical could you get?
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:

Interesting - so to be a (good?) reviewer you have to give negative reviews and trash products from time to time?

Yes.
goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, pegasus wrote:
6 sharpies? Really? How incredibly unpractical could you get?

I know... Smile well at least that's what has been mentioned by one member on here but I asked him (by pm) whether he knew it for a fact or whether it was his personal opinion.

I was hoping it would (only) take roughly the space of six rolled-up cards, which in that case would be much better (so about 3 times less pocket space)...
Ben
TopJimmy
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Craig Petty has a great review show with his son Ryland. Buys everything out of pocket and regularly trashes products (so does 8 year old Ryland).
Ross W
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There's a neatness about this plot which the other methods being discussed (forcing a card, etc) don't really address.

1. Think of a card.
2. Now write it down. Oh, the pen doesn't work?
3. Open the pen: the card you never said out loud is inside! Ta-daa!

Now in my mind, that's a pretty good plot. Forcing a card (even using my suggestion of Limitless) adds another step, which we can call 2(a)

2(a) Show that the card has disappeared from the deck

This disturbs the rhythm and potentially confuses the plot. I'm beginning to dislike this less, although I will never do it.
Author.
Twitter: @rosswelford
www.rosswelford.com
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, TopJimmy wrote:
Craig Petty has a great review show with his son Ryland. Buys everything out of pocket and regularly trashes products (so does 8 year old Ryland).

If he buys everything himself then you can trust the integrity of the reviews -even if you disagree with his opinions or taste. And that is all you can ask of a review show.
Calvin826
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'Unbiased Magic Reviews' YouTube channel is pretty good. He buys his own stuff and is very honest. He also performs many of the effects, and recommends alternatives to those he doesn't care for.
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, Ross W wrote:
There's a neatness about this plot which the other methods being discussed (forcing a card, etc) don't really address.

1. Think of a card.
2. Now write it down. Oh, the pen doesn't work?
3. Open the pen: the card you never said out loud is inside! Ta-daa!

Now in my mind, that's a pretty good plot. Forcing a card (even using my suggestion of Limitless) adds another step, which we can call 2(a)

2(a) Show that the card has disappeared from the deck

This disturbs the rhythm and potentially confuses the plot. I'm beginning to dislike this less, although I will never do it.


Totally agree! Still considering it, apparently it DOES require a space equivalent to 6 sharpies... still thinking though! Smile
Ben
Harry Patter
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[quote]On Feb 9, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
[quote]On Feb 9, 2021, Ross W wrote:
There's a neatness about this plot which the other methods being discussed (forcing a card, etc) don't really address.

1. Think of a card.
2. Now write it down. Oh, the pen doesn't work?
3. Open the pen: the card you never said out loud is inside! Ta-daa!

Actual plot:
1. Think of a card.
1a. Is it one of these 12? If not please think of one of these.
1b. Please tell me which one you are thinking off
1c. Let me get a piece of paper from one of my pockets.
2. Now write it down. Oh, the pen doesn't work?
2a. Give me the pen back
2b. Please tell me which card you though of.
3. Open the pen: the card you told me is in the pen.
CardGuyMike
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Some reviewers give everything a positive review because they don't post reviews of items they don't like. Some reviewers get some effects for free and buy others themselves. I believe Ekaterina is one of those. And I have seen her give several negative reviews. I trust her integrity, but just because she likes something doesn't mean you will. Same goes with any reviewer. And Ekat didn't really call this the trick of the year -- she just said she thought it might turn out to be the trick of the year because she liked it so much.

Gather as much info you can and then decide whether to purchase an effect. Hopefully you are right more than you're wrong. There have been universally acclaimed effects that just weren't for me.
Harry Patter
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PropDog have posted an edited trailer.

https://youtu.be/973ZfaRNBkY
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:

Interesting - so to be a (good?) reviewer you have to give negative reviews and trash products from time to time?

Yes.


And that's your personal opinion, which I respect.

HOWEVER, let me try to very quickly explain why I think that's not a great approach (and of course that's only my opinion and this is just food for thought): any reviewer (and by that I mean a reviewer that gives a review either on a YouTube channel or any other public channel, it can be his/her own webpage, in a magic magazine etc.) who gives a review doesn't do it for the sake of it or to make you happy. He/she does it because he/she gets a benefit from doing it, whether he/she receives products for free, whether it's to get more followers, more likes (so getting paid for it by YouTube), whether it's to attract people to subscribe to their channel for a monthly subscription to access private content, whether it's to promote himself/herself for gigs etc. there can be a lot of different reasons but in the end he/she has something to gain from it (directly or indirectly). And it might not even be a financial gain, that wouldn't change anything to the point I am about to (finally!) make. Some people (a huge minority though) might even do it because they just enjoy doing so and they feel good by doing it; so the gain they have in that particular case is the pleasure they get by doing it - if you want to read more about that please refer to either Aristoteles in Nicomachean Ethics or the works of the philosophers/sociologists Marcel Mauss (The Gift - Essay), Bourdieu and Derrida (plenty to read about - I would however suggest reading studies ON them like for example "Bourdieu and Derrida on Gift: Beyond “Double Truth” and Paradox" by Camil Ungureanu).

Now, I guess your reason for saying that good reviewers should give bad reviews from time to time would be that it shows they show objectivity and as a such they are unbiaised. And that's where I disagree and which is what I was getting at. Any review is biaised. Any. Whether it be for the underlying benefit the reviewer might get or simply because, well, they're also humans! A review remains an opinion. So it IS biaised, we're not robots. An unbiasied review simply does not exist. Period. (and apologies to the eponymous channel which I actually really like, what I mean is really nothing against it). Now I'm not saying that all reviewers do not honestly say what they think about a product and secretly mislead everyone just for the sake of releasing a positive (or even negative) review. I'm just saying a review is an opinion and as such is inherently biaised, that's just what it is, it's just in the nature of being human! Just as another member mentioned it on here the final outcome of a review (positive or negative or whatever grade they give it) will always depend on the reviewer's preferences, its history, its experience etc. Hence why what matters to me more is everything else BEHIND the review, the reasons, the descriptions, the context of the trick, the arguments, the examples, the demo they do etc. THAT's what ultimately will help me form a view, not whether the review is positive or not, or whether the reviewer sometimes gives negative reviews - so that's independant of who the reviewer is. So to be fair, for me the more the reviewers the better - even David from Magicorthodoxy very often states that you should always listen to other people's reviews and form YOUR opinion.

But, again, that's just how I see things, most welcome for you to not agree (and as the French philosopher and writer Voltaire said I will fight for your right to disagree - I probably wouldn't fight like him to the death though sorry Smile).

(and to be clear I'm not defending Ekat here, nor am I attacking anyone, these are simply my thoughts Smile )
Ben
Harry Patter
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On Feb 9, 2021, CardGuyMike wrote:
And Ekat didn't really call this the trick of the year -- she just said she thought it might turn out to be the trick of the year because she liked it so much.



Er. She said "it is the trick of the year for me."
goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, CardGuyMike wrote:
Some reviewers give everything a positive review because they don't post reviews of items they don't like. Some reviewers get some effects for free and buy others themselves. I believe Ekaterina is one of those. And I have seen her give several negative reviews. I trust her integrity, but just because she likes something doesn't mean you will. Same goes with any reviewer. And Ekat didn't really call this the trick of the year -- she just said she thought it might turn out to be the trick of the year because she liked it so much.

Gather as much info you can and then decide whether to purchase an effect. Hopefully you are right more than you're wrong. There have been universally acclaimed effects that just weren't for me.


Well well well looks like we agree on something Mike Smile well said! It's true I forgot to mention that but you COULD have reviewers who only review products they like! (and you're right I also think she has given negative reviews)
Ben
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, CardGuyMike wrote:
And Ekat didn't really call this the trick of the year -- she just said she thought it might turn out to be the trick of the year because she liked it so much.



Er. She said "it is the trick of the year for me."


She said "I'll make a prediction" or something like that ? And it's her opinion that it might become the trick of the year I don't see any harm in that? Smile after all we're all best placed to make predictions aren't we? Smile
Ben
Harry Patter
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I'm not saying anything against her or her opinion. Just that she did say 'It is the trick of the year for me".

The PropDog trailer sheds a bit of light on things regarding the trick. Not sure how long it will be up for.....Hopefully they'll post a review soon.
goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
PropDog have posted an edited trailer.

https://youtu.be/973ZfaRNBkY


Haha nice thanks for sharing Smile
Ben
goldeneye007
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On Feb 9, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
I'm not saying anything against her or her opinion. Just that she did say 'It is the trick of the year for me".

The PropDog trailer sheds a bit of light on things regarding the trick. Not sure how long it will be up for.....Hopefully they'll post a review soon.


Yes yes I got that!

I like the propdog edit, it's funny and does answer quite a few questions so it's helpful - I still like the whole thing, the only thing that bothers me is the size of the set-up... if it was only the size of 6 thinly rolled-up cards I'd be sold straight away
Ben
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes)
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