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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cardistry master
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You were going on and on about how it’s unoriginal and when people asked for any proof you said oh a ban was threatened if I say anymore
Gaz Lawrence
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Exactly as Jon didn’t want to describe the effect at all or put up a demo so it was only correct and ethical that I didn’t post the originator of the method which Jon openly admitted that it wasn’t a new method on the thread . It was not my business to post that to anyone and of course I did not . Buy the effect and maybe Jon mentions the originator of the method on there if you are that desperate to know . Either way you will then know the methodology behind it and some great new ways of implementing them Gaz 😊
The Unmasked Magician
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Gaz was not the reason that thread was taken down. He worded all his posts and arguments respectfully, as did Martin. It was another Café member that started being condescending and provoking towards Gaz that destroyed that thread. I asked him to get back on topic. But to no avail.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
pegasus
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
You may as well have one card face down on the table in full view then if you are going to use DFB ? Gaz 😊


Absolutely. I was just trying to offer a way out of their terrible presentation of the effect.
JackMagic
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2021, natsuy wrote:
But just a question can you actually have an ordinary empty sharpie? I believe regular sharpies can't even be opened. What I believe Pegasus was saying is if you have the money you can buy the gimmick and use it in combination with DFB.

Quote:
On Feb 6, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
I'm meant you don't need Summit. You can use dfb and an empty Sharpie you have rolled a card into.
The Sharpie with Summit doesn't work. It is an ordinary empty Sharpie.


You can easily open a sharpie, this has been shown on several DVDS

as stated on this weeks Propdog Live this is nothing more than a trick that solved a problem that does not exist

Force a card or use DFB and use your own sharpie

must better than wasting your money on this trash !
Gaz Lawrence
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Yes I have already said on this thread you can easily open a sharpie and change the cartridge for a dry erase one for example Gaz 😊
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, JackMagic wrote:
as stated on this weeks Propdog Live this is nothing more than a trick that solved a problem that does not exist

Force a card or use DFB and use your own sharpie

must better than wasting your money on this trash !

The advisability of having a card appear in a Sharpie is a separate issue, but f------g a card or using DFB will never be as powerful for a spectator as thinking of a card. "Freely" generating a card, as in this effect, lies somewhere between the two.

Personally, I've never been a fan of think-a-card effects when a deck of cards isn't in play. If you're asking someone to merely think of something, why ask them to think of a playing card? I'm coming at that from a mentalism perspective, of course. Magic has it's own peculiar logic which is vastly different to mentalism. Which is why you can end up with an ungainly mess when you start trying to mix them.
Kaliix
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"Has anyone outside of a magic context ever kept a burnt playing card held by a paperclip in a matchbox?"

No, but so what. That isn't the relevant question. Magic makes sense because the magician makes it make sense through the story and routine. Inferno works because the burning of the cards, the matchbox, Fire, Men vs Women all tie into the story, which ties into the equivoque which brings it full circle. The Inferno card IS the prediction. The magician saved one card. That reveal is built up to and IS the climax.

Summit is an oops moment. Oh look the pen won't write, I wonder why. There is no story, no reason, no justification for the card being in the pen. The magician just did it because he could and it cheapens the reveal to have it appear "by accident".

Summit was manufactured to make dollars, not sense.

Quote:
On Feb 12, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
I'm not sure the "it doesn't make sense" argument makes much sense. The history of magic is littered with effects that make little logical sense or have any link to lived experience- the universal image of a magician is a man pulling a rabbit out of a top hat.

Does it make sense for a playing card to be inside a Sharpie? No. But it doesn't really make much more sense to pretend to be thinking of burning playing cards and then taking a burnt card held by a paper clip out of a matchbox. What's that all about? Has anyone outside of a magic context ever kept a burnt playing card held by a paperclip in a matchbox?

It could be argued this crazy lack of true logic is part of magic's glory. It's a kind of dream logic. Surely what matters is that there is internal logic within the routine, with genuinely motivated actions? The idea that you think of a card, are asked to write it down and then, upon finding the pen doesn't write, discover that the card you are merely thinking of is inside the pen, blocking it from writing, has an internal logic. The sequence of events makes sense within the particular dream logic of the effect.

The issue I would have with it is, if you have already asked for the value and colour of the card (as claimed on here, and not denied as far as I can see) then it doesn't make much sense to ask for it to be written down. Much better to get them to think of a card, genuinely never name it and then allow them to take it from the Sharpie and inspect it if they wish -which can be done, of course.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Kaliix wrote:
"Has anyone outside of a magic context ever kept a burnt playing card held by a paperclip in a matchbox?"

No, but so what. That isn't the relevant question. Magic makes sense because the magician makes it make sense through the story and routine. Inferno works because the burning of the cards, the matchbox, Fire, Men vs Women all tie into the story, which ties into the equivoque which brings it full circle. The Inferno card IS the prediction. The magician saved one card. That reveal is built up to and IS the climax.

Summit is an oops moment. Oh look the pen won't write, I wonder why. There is no story, no reason, no justification for the card being in the pen. The magician just did it because he could and it cheapens the reveal to have it appear "by accident".

Summit was manufactured to make dollars, not sense.

All you're saying is you prefer the nonsense of Inferno to the nonsense of Summit. I do, too. It's a much better structured routine. Inferno is much more beautifully crafted as an organic whole.But neither of them make any "sense". Both routines are contrived. Inferno is just a more pleasing contrivance.

I don't think Summit plays as a prediction routine, and I don't see why it has to, but if people want routines that make sense with proper predictions being revealed in logical ways switch to proper mentalism. The best mentalism prediction routines will meet your criteria.
mindhunter
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2021, scott0819 wrote:
I'm struggling to understand the pros of this method vs all the other methods/versions discussed. Based on all the discussion:

PROS:
- thought of card, no deck needed
- card in sharpie can be revealed prior to final card choice (spades/clubs, hearts/diamonds)

CONS:
- gimmick and pocket space required
- switch or load involved (possibly)
- sharpie cannot be examined
- card cannot be examined

On the no-gimmick side, you can get very close to the same effect using a regular hollowed out sharpie and Seven by Bryn Reynolds (Safwan Papers).


Yeahhhhh.... umm...about this....

I've been doing my SEVEN inside a sharpie for a while now. ONE regular card, one Sharpie, and in their hand right from the start, before you even mention anything about an effect at all.

Thanks for bringing it up, Scott.

Bryn
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Gaz Lawrence
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Never liked the equivoque in inferno as it goes completely against what they have asked for on half the occasions . See this performance to see what I mean Gaz 😊

https://youtu.be/mno_rqPnDvM
pegasus
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Never liked the equivoque in inferno as it goes completely against what they have asked for on half the occasions . See this performance to see what I mean Gaz 😊

https://youtu.be/mno_rqPnDvM


I agree. Leave that rubbish to the ‘so called’ mentalists.
mindhunter
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[quote]On Feb 14, 2021, pegasus wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Never liked the equivoque ...........

I agree. Leave that rubbish to the ‘so called’ mentalists.


...I could not POSSIBLY agree more with this statement....smirk...

Bryn
*QUARANTINE SPECIAL!!!*
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls Mentalism ebooks - Now just $20 each!

Just PayPal to:
bryn@darkmountainarts.com
(No PayPal account? Just shoot me your email and I'll send you an invoice that can be paid with any card.)

REVIEWS:
" The Safwan Papers":
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=253272&forum=15

"THE LOGAR SCROLLS":
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=464100&forum=303&70

...................................
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Martin Pulman
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Why would a mentalist perform 'Inferno'; it's a magic trick. At a stretch, mental magic.

For those wanting to learn a better way to perform equivoque -a way that makes sense -look up Hector Chadwick's and Joshua Quinn's work on the subject.

Alternatively, just ask them to think of themselves as a playing card and watch your card in sharpie effect fall apart in front of your eyes.
Gaz Lawrence
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Or Docc Hilfords E’Voque is great too Gaz 😊
dyoung
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How do you use E'voque to force a playing card from a deck?
mindhunter
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Why would a mentalist perform 'Inferno'; it's a magic trick. At a stretch, mental magic.

Alternatively, just ask them to think of themselves as a playing card and watch your card in sharpie effect fall apart in front of your eyes.


Why does a performer do "prediction to ANY surprising location?" (be it a previously mailed envelope, chest suspended from the ceiling, a cute 'lil cardboard "Gift" box, a small clear plastic box-thing that really has no real-world purpose, a Sharpie, a whatever etc. yadda blah blah..."

Why do we create ANY of these moments of impossible strangeness?

Because we can. And they LOVE it. And we love that they love it. THAT is why we do this s***.

I normally perform my SEVEN by just writing it down on a scrap of paper. (Bazillion reviews online, 2 bazillion performances by myself, plays great just like that, with no added impossible location.)

SOMETIMES, though, if I have it with me, I'll show it is a real card, rolled up inside a Sharpie. Just because I can.
Know what else I do if I'm feeling especially "mentally magical" and not just "mental" or not just "magical? I pull a folded up Seven of Spades right out of my phone's screen from my #DarkMountainArts Instagram page, or my phone's home screen.


Although "Inferno" uses a few other things and steps to get there than what I do, the effect is the same. And the effect plays very, very well.

Now, Martin, if I could just "get them to think of themselves as a playing card"....
Smile

Bryn
*QUARANTINE SPECIAL!!!*
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls Mentalism ebooks - Now just $20 each!

Just PayPal to:
bryn@darkmountainarts.com
(No PayPal account? Just shoot me your email and I'll send you an invoice that can be paid with any card.)

REVIEWS:
" The Safwan Papers":
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=253272&forum=15

"THE LOGAR SCROLLS":
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=464100&forum=303&70

...................................
Browse my Artwork!
https://www.darkmountainarts.com
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Kaliix
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No, I'm not saying I prefer the nonsense of Inferno to the nonsense of Summit. I am saying that Summit is nonsense while Inferno's plot, story, and purpose all make sense. You say both routines are contrived. Again, I think you miss the point, all routines are contrived but every magician chooses what story to tell. Inferno has a story. Summit does not. Inferno's equivoque directly ties into the burning of cards. I know there are ways to structure the equivoque in Inferno that alleviate Gaz's issues with the inconsistency. Summit equivoque doesn't come with any real story or routine, does it? Not from what I've seen. Burning Men vs Women? A great opening for all kinds of patter. Saving cards from the fire makes sense in choosing while having the one card in the matchbox makes sense as the last card remaining from the fire, perhaps started by those same matches. What sense is there given when you buy the Summit gimmick for a card ending up inside the sharpie? Is there some mystery routine I'm unaware of?

Also, "routines that make sense with proper predictions being revealed in logical ways" is the hallmark of good routining, regardless of whether that the performance is magic or mentalism. That you think that only magic is otherwise seems insulting to magicians and appears to reinforce the snobby attitude stereotypically associated with mentalists.

Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Kaliix wrote:
"Has anyone outside of a magic context ever kept a burnt playing card held by a paperclip in a matchbox?"

No, but so what. That isn't the relevant question. Magic makes sense because the magician makes it make sense through the story and routine. Inferno works because the burning of the cards, the matchbox, Fire, Men vs Women all tie into the story, which ties into the equivoque which brings it full circle. The Inferno card IS the prediction. The magician saved one card. That reveal is built up to and IS the climax.

Summit is an oops moment. Oh look the pen won't write, I wonder why. There is no story, no reason, no justification for the card being in the pen. The magician just did it because he could and it cheapens the reveal to have it appear "by accident".

Summit was manufactured to make dollars, not sense.

All you're saying is you prefer the nonsense of Inferno to the nonsense of Summit. I do, too. It's a much better structured routine. Inferno is much more beautifully crafted as an organic whole.But neither of them make any "sense". Both routines are contrived. Inferno is just a more pleasing contrivance.

I don't think Summit plays as a prediction routine, and I don't see why it has to, but if people want routines that make sense with proper predictions being revealed in logical ways switch to proper mentalism. The best mentalism prediction routines will meet your criteria.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, mindhunter wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 14, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Why would a mentalist perform 'Inferno'; it's a magic trick. At a stretch, mental magic.

Alternatively, just ask them to think of themselves as a playing card and watch your card in sharpie effect fall apart in front of your eyes.


Why does a performer do "prediction to ANY surprising location?" (be it a previously mailed envelope....

In what way is a prediction in a previously mailed envelope a "surprising location"?
The Unmasked Magician
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I would reverse that question: what is a NORMAL location for a prediction? I think nothing is. (In the eyes of laymen anyway.)
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
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