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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricks & Effects Ľ Ľ SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Gaz Lawrence
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Equivoque can be genius in the right hands but there are so many people who use it poorly . I agree with Martinís last post about kids Gaz 😊
The Unmasked Magician
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If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, MR Effecto wrote:
Even with to bad demo trailer and misleading ad, this looks to have a lot of potential. Ordered this today. I see it playing very well in good hands.


May we conclude from this that you are in the possession of good hands?
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
The Unmasked Magician
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If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Equivoque can be genius in the right hands but there are so many people who use it poorly . I agree with Martinís last post about kids Gaz 😊


Oh, you two guys! Stop agreeing! It's becoming a bromance Smile
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I bet 100% he says it plays good Gaz 😊

No need for me to report anything back then! Smile

Guys, I think we've all read a thousand times on this thread that the equivoque shown on the different trailers is really poor and we've all agreed that you shouldn't do it like that. All I've been reading is people going on and on and on regarding this equivoque, about how there is no equivoque but then there is still one, that the effect makes no sense etc... I think we all got the point: there IS indeed a "no-equivoque" method possible for this effect but we all agree the patter is really not great (and I'm still not sure why they show trailers using it ...). And regarding whether the effect makes sense or not is personal taste I suppose, I can't really comment on that. I'm really not here to defend Summit but if you base your opinion solely on the equivoque shown in the trailers then, by all means, don't get Summit (I won't be affected obviously)! Even better, less people will perform it! Smile

However, for those who think there might be some potential in Summit and who might be interested, there is an equivoque method taught in the tutorial and, as I mentioned, although pretty basic, it works quite well imho. Besides it seems to me that you are all very knowledgeable magicians/mentalists so surely you would be able to get your way around narrowing the choice to 12 cards? (even without equivoque) Smile
Ben
videoman
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
And regarding whether the effect makes sense or not is personal taste I suppose, I can't really comment on that.


No, the effect doesnít make sense. Thatís just a fact.
Whether you care if it doesnít make sense is a matter of personal taste.

But hey, hope you have a lot of fun with it. Thatís what itís all about.
So go out there and make people smile, while practicing proper social guidelines of course!
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, videoman wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
And regarding whether the effect makes sense or not is personal taste I suppose, I can't really comment on that.


No, the effect doesnít make sense. Thatís just a fact.
Whether you care if it doesnít make sense is a matter of personal taste.


Actually I beg to differ: you saying the effect does not make any sense is really not a fact, it's your personal opinion...

Quote:
But hey, hope you have a lot of fun with it. Thatís what itís all about.
So go out there and make people smile, while practicing proper social guidelines of course!

Absolutely! And yes it will only be a small family gathering, within that group we've literally only seen each other over the past few months Smile
Ben
CardGuyMike
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The idea of an equivoque for picture cards is not new. Joshua Jay uses it for Inferno, Chris Ramsay uses it for Red Pill and these effects were well received. Other effects use it too. So pick a better equivoque.

But this idea of magicians discussing what's good is fascinating to me. In music, critics and professionals can listen to a song and say it's not good. And they can tell you why. It uses a common chord progression that's been used a million times. It has a standard beat. The lyrics are trite. The singer isn't that great. Music executives can say it's not commercial and won't sell. It's too weird, it's too long, it's too unconventional, it's boring, it doesn't fit the singer's image. And yet many of these songs over the years became smash hits because the people liked it anyway and bought lots of copies.

Nobody's negative opinion here is "wrong" or outlandish. We can enumerate why it's illogical or ill-conceived or overpriced or a poor imitation of a better trick. But that's why I'm genuinely curious about the reactions Ben (or anyone else) gets. I wonder how often a trick is dismissed by magicians for very good reasons, yet the trick goes over big with audiences. That's probably a topic for another thread but it has happened famously a ton of times in music. I wonder how often it happens in magic.
Gaz Lawrence
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None with this effect , if itís a song then it is a bum note period itís as simple as that . It may go over well for Benís family and I truly hope it does . I guarantee you though it will be in no ones set on a regular basis when there are 1000ís of better effects out there that make sense and are far far stronger Gaz 😊
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, CardGuyMike wrote:
The idea of an equivoque for picture cards is not new. Joshua Jay uses it for Inferno, Chris Ramsay uses it for Red Pill and these effects were well received. Other effects use it too. So pick a better equivoque.

But this idea of magicians discussing what's good is fascinating to me. In music, critics and professionals can listen to a song and say it's not good. And they can tell you why. It uses a common chord progression that's been used a million times. It has a standard beat. The lyrics are trite. The singer isn't that great. Music executives can say it's not commercial and won't sell. It's too weird, it's too long, it's too unconventional, it's boring, it doesn't fit the singer's image. And yet many of these songs over the years became smash hits because the people liked it anyway and bought lots of copies.

Nobody's negative opinion here is "wrong" or outlandish. We can enumerate why it's illogical or ill-conceived or overpriced or a poor imitation of a better trick. But that's why I'm genuinely curious about the reactions Ben (or anyone else) gets. I wonder how often a trick is dismissed by magicians for very good reasons, yet the trick goes over big with audiences. That's probably a topic for another thread but it has happened famously a ton of times in music. I wonder how often it happens in magic.

Yes, but just because Achy Breaky Heart was a massive hit worldwide doesn't mean the music critics were wrong when they pointed out it was utter s--t.
Harry Patter
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What is the effect? Is it....
1.Production
2.Transposition
3.Thought Reading
4.Thought Transmission
5.Prediction
CardGuyMike
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
Yes, but just because Achy Breaky Heart was a massive hit worldwide doesn't mean the music critics were wrong when they pointed out it was utter s--t.

:lol: You just made me literally spit out my tea. Well done!
Alan M
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:

Yes, but just because Achy Breaky Heart was a massive hit worldwide doesn't mean the music critics were wrong when they pointed out it was utter s--t.


I know it's only February, but this is the post of the year for me.
Drylid
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Watch the propdog trailer for this. super transparent
rowland
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
What is the effect? Is it....
1.Production
2.Transposition
3.Thought Reading
4.Thought Transmission
5.Prediction


Does Joe public actually care what it is. I have absolutely no doubt that a good magician using this will get amazing reactions with it.
As usual all us magicians are doing far too much analysis of a product. Years ago you used to buy a trick, perform it and let your audience reactions decide if it was going to be a keeper or not.
Many magicians set out so many boxes that a trick must tick before it becomes a feasible purchase and they maybe forget the most important one.
Harry Patter
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2021, rowland wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
What is the effect? Is it....
1.Production
2.Transposition
3.Thought Reading
4.Thought Transmission
5.Prediction


Does Joe public actually care what it is. I have absolutely no doubt that a good magician using this will get amazing reactions with it.
As usual all us magicians are doing far too much analysis of a product. Years ago you used to buy a trick, perform it and let your audience reactions decide if it was going to be a keeper or not.
Many magicians set out so many boxes that a trick must tick before it becomes a feasible purchase and they maybe forget the most important one.


Deciding which classification enables a better presentation. It is magicians who should care about what they are presenting, it will then be clear to the spectators.
rowland
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 17, 2021, rowland wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Harry Patter wrote:
What is the effect? Is it....
1.Production
2.Transposition
3.Thought Reading
4.Thought Transmission
5.Prediction


Does Joe public actually care what it is. I have absolutely no doubt that a good magician using this will get amazing reactions with it.
As usual all us magicians are doing far too much analysis of a product. Years ago you used to buy a trick, perform it and let your audience reactions decide if it was going to be a keeper or not.
Many magicians set out so many boxes that a trick must tick before it becomes a feasible purchase and they maybe forget the most important one.


Deciding which classification enables a better presentation. It is magicians who should care about what they are presenting, it will then be clear to the spectators.


I agree to a certain extent but it this case the way itís performed if you were to ask a group of people who had seen it I think you would get pretty much the same answer of what had happened.
Harry Patter
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So you present a trick but you don't know if you are making a prediction or mind reading?
This seriously breaks my heart. That someone can care so little about what and how they perform to not consider what the effect is they are presenting or how to create the best experience for the audience.

In this case, what has happened? A card has been removed from a Sharpie. That is not a magic effect, but will get a reaction of surprise.
goldeneye007
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In this case (and I'm summarizing here, taking out all the story you can build around it) you ask a spectator to name "any" card (apparently) and to write it down (or draw it in my presentation) with a sharpie that has been in play since the very beginnging and they notice it doesn't work. Then you show the reason it doesn't work by opening the sharpie (either yourself or I let them do it in my presentation) and by showing that the card they "freely" thought of has been in their sharpie all along.

I'll let you name what kind of effect that is and I'll let you classify it but I feel this is very very strong... (but again that's just my opinion).

Let me ask you something (and others as well actually Smile): imagine this plays EXACTLY like this - you are given a sharpie and you are asked to think of ANY card (let's say you think of the 2 of spades) and to write it down (or draw it) on a business card (or a white playing card which is what I might do from time to time). As you start doing so you realise that the sharpie doesn't work so you are asked to open the sharpie and you find the 2 of spades in the sharpie. Wouldn't you be ABSOLUTELY AMAZED? I would be. Well I guess that's more or less what you are trying to achieve here.

Now I'm really not saying this is the best trick ever, but saying this is garbage feels really harsh to me. Sure, a lot of people won't like it, I totally respect that. Imho hoewever it's quite strong. I both like the fact that you can either take out the card at the very end without knowing what card they are going to say or let them open the sharpie and take out the card themselves (depending on what version you do). Sure you could achieve that with other methods but I feel this one is quite clean compared to other methods (and true, the spectators probably wouldn't see the difference).
Ben
Gaz Lawrence
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I personally think even the pen not working is weak , you have obviously given them a pen that was never going to write because it had a card stuffed in it with no ink cartridge . I would rather it write , then the freely thought of card is the only card missing from the deck and itís to be found in the cap of the pen they have had and written with from the start Gaz 😊
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I personally think even the pen not working is weak , you have obviously given them a pen that was never going to write because it had a card stuffed in it with no ink cartridge . I would rather it write , then the freely thought of card is the only card missing from the deck and itís to be found in the cap of the pen they have had and written with from the start Gaz 😊

I have to admit that would be good!
(and you will now tell me there are already ways to achieve something similar and you'd be right!)
Ben
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricks & Effects Ľ Ľ SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes)
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