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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Open up your mind
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So many people have reviewed this badly, and those bad reviews are there to help other people and help save their money. People don’t have to make reviews, they choose to for the good of the community. The poster appears to be pretty new into magic so they are even more in need of reviews. Finally, yes I do have an objective reason I dislike it - the gimmicks are poorly made.
goldeneye007
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It's really appalling to see that some people (and adults I would assume?) don't even know the meaning of words as simple as "objective"... but hey, Plato and the cave...

@Open Your Mind: for the record my gimmicks are perfectly fine so that's so much for your "objectivity" - I urge you to read the definition of "objective" Smile
@Autarchic Flux: if you think that magic is about competing with other magicians then you're clearly on the wrong forum (read the forum subtitle...) and you must have a very sad life (or are you a FISM award winner? Smile )

I rarely write on here to attack people but it's because of comments like that that there sometimes is a bad atmosphere on the Café. Everyone is entitled to it's own opinion (that's subjectivity) and everyone is allowed to express it (that's freedom), however the way you communicate this opinion should be done with respect, which is clearly something both of you should consider.
Ben
AutarchicFlux
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I'm actually a philosopher by trade and felt the need to point out that you're using the word "subjectively" wrong. Smile Plato's cave, for the record, is about how reality isn't real, but only a pale copy of the eternal realm of the "forms." It has nothing to do with the subjective/objective distinction. So you didn't get either philosophical point right.

But by all means, enjoy the crappy trick!
goldeneye007
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Wow so you DO know how to google things (and copy paste) well done! Now you need to understand them (and what I meant), good luck to you too! Smile
Ben
Gaz Lawrence
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Yes Ben you are one of the nicest respectful person I have ever met on these boards and you readily except different opinions in a very mature way . You put a lot of thought into what you post and they are always a great read . I don’t always agree with everything you say but so what who does with anyone but that shouldn’t mean any of us should not get along because of differing view points . Sometimes just snippets of information from someone’s post might be pure gold for something else ie for another effect that we already currently do . I certainly always look above the parapet like that , as we are all different and all have different styles , likes and dislikes but our common passion is the art of magic . It’s magicians helping magicians and that motto is beautifully adhered to by you my friend Gaz 😊
LankyHobo
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, AutarchicFlux wrote:

Perform it all you like - the effect is, in fact, *objectively* garbage that no good magician would ever touch. I don't mind objectively bad magicians doing objectively bad tricks competing with me. Smile


Subjective opinions are not objective truths.
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, LankyHobo wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, AutarchicFlux wrote:

Perform it all you like - the effect is, in fact, *objectively* garbage that no good magician would ever touch. I don't mind objectively bad magicians doing objectively bad tricks competing with me. Smile


Subjective opinions are not objective truths.

And that's so much for the "philosopher by trade"... thank you for confirming LankyHobo. Smile
Ben
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
Wow so you DO know how to google things (and copy paste) well done! Now you need to understand them (and what I meant), good luck to you too! Smile


I wasn't kidding before - I literally AM a philosopher. I teach both subjects you brought up. You're the one who's got both wrong. Cheers though, and back to magic!
AutarchicFlux
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, LankyHobo wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, AutarchicFlux wrote:

Perform it all you like - the effect is, in fact, *objectively* garbage that no good magician would ever touch. I don't mind objectively bad magicians doing objectively bad tricks competing with me. Smile


Subjective opinions are not objective truths.

And that's so much for the "philosopher by trade"... thank you for confirming LankyHobo. Smile


And the two non-philosophers proceed with their "common sense." Oh well, what can be done I guess?
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Yes Ben you are one of the nicest respectful person I have ever met on these boards and you readily except different opinions in a very mature way . You put a lot of thought into what you post and they are always a great read . I don’t always agree with everything you say but so what who does with anyone but that shouldn’t mean any of us should not get along because of differing view points . Sometimes just snippets of information from someone’s post might be pure gold for something else ie for another effect that we already currently do . I certainly always look above the parapet like that , as we are all different and all have different styles , likes and dislikes but our common passion is the art of magic . It’s magicians helping magicians and that motto is beautifully adhered to by you my friend Gaz 😊

Yes I know there are quite a few things on which we don't agree, but that's also the whole point of the Café, sharing ideas and (respectfully) debating - and totally agree with that, our common passion is the art of magic and helping each other - hence why I sometimes get irritated when things derail a bit... thank you for your kind words Gaz, always a pleasure to read you Smile
Ben
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, AutarchicFlux wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
Wow so you DO know how to google things (and copy paste) well done! Now you need to understand them (and what I meant), good luck to you too! Smile


I wasn't kidding before - I literally AM a philosopher. I teach both subjects you brought up. You're the one who's got both wrong. Cheers though, and back to magic!

Cool story bro.

See, here’s the thing - I don’t need (nor feel the need) to bring up my background for you to be wrong. And, honestly, nobody cares... we just would like you to be respectful so please stick to that at least.
Ben
Jared
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I don't have any skin in this, but didn't care for Summit because it's not really mentalism and it doesn't satisfy my magical taste either. As a mentalist I'd never have a prediction appear rolled-up inside of a Sharpie for no apparent reason. And as a magician, there's nothing really that "magical" about this effect either. It seems like a weird coincidence paired with bad magician's acting ("Hmmm the pen doesn't write, so why don't we open it to find out why?"). I mean in all honestly, have you ever opened a Sharpie if it ran out of ink? I would just throw it into the trash as most people would. It's not like I'm carrying a spare cartridge in my jacket to swap out the ink.

Moreover, double-ended pip cards seem to look better when the card isn't in a rolled state. When you see the card being unraveled in this condition it looks like the performer is hiding something. It would look much better if the spectator could unroll the card himself, but then you'd need to employ two indexes and two pockets.

Again, these are my own personal reasons for not liking Summit. I've purchased every marketed version of this plot, such as Inferno, On the Mark, etc. and for my money the best is still Prospect, but with my own handling and something 'extra' added that I hope to eventually document someday.
videoman
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On Mar 8, 2021, Jared wrote:
I've purchased every marketed version of this plot, such as Inferno, On the Mark, etc. and for my money the best is still Prospect, but with my own handling and something 'extra' added that I hope to eventually document someday.


My current fav in this genre is Imaginary Card from Mark Calabrese's OSYN video. The version I do is in the same vein as the ones Jared mentioned because I use an E process and a 12 card pocket index. Any disadvantages from using 12 cards vs 6 cards is completely outweighed by being able to allow the spec to unfold the card and even keep it if they wish. Using a double index and being able to have the card in view prior to the suit being named is a nice touch but again, I prefer being able to show and handle the card so openly and then drop it in the spec's hand really puts a bow on the routine IMO. Pulling a rolled up card from a Sharpie is a strange enough “once in a lifetime” unexpected and odd occurrence, that I feel it would really entice a spec to want to look at the card more closely, but of course you cannot grant that wish with Summit.

But I was happy to see someone give Prospect some love. I’ve long felt it has been overlooked. Perhaps because it was a Sansmind release. It’s just so simple, direct, and clean. Uncluttered without the nonsensical silliness that you have with Summit. But to each their own.
Jared
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Quote:
But I was happy to see someone give Prospect some love. I’ve long felt it has been overlooked. Perhaps because it was a Sansmind release. It’s just so simple, direct, and clean. Uncluttered without the nonsensical silliness that you have with Summit. But to each their own.

I totally agree. Sometimes less is MORE...simple, direct, clean, and uncluttered. I think that it's natural for us magician's to always try and 'up the ante' so to speak (Hey, let's make the card appear inside a Sharpie marker that was in play from the start!). But in reality, what matters most is the fairness of the procedure and the mystery that we impart into minds of our audience members.
BAGWIZ
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I bought this as an alternative to Joshua Jay’s “Inferno,” which I really like and perform regularly. Others have already weighed-in on the goofy box, the 3D printed item sliding around inside the box, the blatant false statement (“no equivo—--“) made in the ad, the lack of an uncut live performance, etc. All of that is valid, but I still like the concept behind “Summit” and I will try creating a modified version of it. The comment above about the awkwardness of holding a rolled-up card in a certain way, really resonated with me. I watched the instructions and the unrolling just looked off for some reason but I couldn’t figure out why ... Jared (see above) explained why and he’s absolutely right. Nobody in real life would hold an un-rolled card the way it is taught in “Summit.” So I’m going to have to rework that and I will also likely use thinner cards such as those from Card Sharks. I do like the idea of not having to bring out a deck of cards and I’m also ok with this being more of a magic trick than pure mentalist, although I can understand why some “pure” mentalists might not care for this. I’m no professional reviewer but if I had to rate “Summit” I’d probably give it 3.5 stars out of 5 ... mainly because I think it has potential for other workings than those presented. For it’s intended effect, I don’t think it is as good as “Inferno.”

My only other nagging pet peeve is probably something most people may not care about, but I am really not a fan of instructional videos where the performer/instructor looks overly casual and IMHO, borderline sloppy. It just looks so unprofessional to me and if the “casual” look is what everyone likes, then I admit I’m maybe just old school on this issue. I’m not suggesting people dress in a suit and tie like Daryl did on his encyclopedia of card magic series, but I don’t get the “I just mowed the lawn and now I’m making a magic video” look. It doesn’t cost or take that much these days to put together a professional quality production, but again, if this is the look people like, then I’m just out of step.

One more thing ... “Summit” comes with a card that gives the website address and password for the trick. Mine has a web address that is misprinted. It wasn’t hard to find the right web address, but a misprint like that is just sloppy and again, unprofessional.
Gaz Lawrence
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Quote “My only other nagging pet peeve is probably something most people may not care about, but I am really not a fan of instructional videos where the performer/instructor looks overly casual and IMHO, borderline sloppy. It just looks so unprofessional to me and if the “casual” look is what everyone likes, then I admit I’m maybe just old school on this issue. I’m not suggesting people dress in a suit and tie like Daryl did on his encyclopedia of card magic series, but I don’t get the “I just mowed the lawn and now I’m making a magic video” look. It doesn’t cost or take that much these days to put together a professional quality production, but again, if this is the look people like, then I’m just out of step.”

100% agree with the above quote from BAGWIZ, good magic to all Gaz 😊
pegasus
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Quote “My only other nagging pet peeve is probably something most people may not care about, but I am really not a fan of instructional videos where the performer/instructor looks overly casual and IMHO, borderline sloppy. It just looks so unprofessional to me and if the “casual” look is what everyone likes, then I admit I’m maybe just old school on this issue. I’m not suggesting people dress in a suit and tie like Daryl did on his encyclopedia of card magic series, but I don’t get the “I just mowed the lawn and now I’m making a magic video” look. It doesn’t cost or take that much these days to put together a professional quality production, but again, if this is the look people like, then I’m just out of step.”

100% agree with the above quote from BAGWIZ, good magic to all Gaz 😊


“Good magic to all”?

That’s the Great Gumbini’s catch phrase. Smile Wait till he finds out.
JackMagic
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I would like to predict that this trick won’t make it into the Top 10

Tricks of the year

Let alone number one
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2021, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Quote “My only other nagging pet peeve is probably something most people may not care about, but I am really not a fan of instructional videos where the performer/instructor looks overly casual and IMHO, borderline sloppy. It just looks so unprofessional to me and if the “casual” look is what everyone likes, then I admit I’m maybe just old school on this issue. I’m not suggesting people dress in a suit and tie like Daryl did on his encyclopedia of card magic series, but I don’t get the “I just mowed the lawn and now I’m making a magic video” look. It doesn’t cost or take that much these days to put together a professional quality production, but again, if this is the look people like, then I’m just out of step.”

100% agree with the above quote from BAGWIZ, good magic to all Gaz 😊

Hahaha even if I don't really mind that quote about mowing the lawn made me laugh Smile

And yes it probably won't make the top ten given all the bad comments on here but I think it will be in my personal top 5. I don't have the same comparative sample as Inferno but I really feel I got better reactions than I got from Inferno. Inferno is obviously much easier to carry around though...
Ben
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On Apr 19, 2021, goldeneye007 wrote:
And yes it probably won't make the top ten given all the bad comments on here but I think it will be in my personal top 5. I don't have the same comparative sample as Inferno but I really feel I got better reactions than I got from Inferno. Inferno is obviously much easier to carry around though...

Really this post is the key to me. As much as it was completely trashed on this forum, called illogical and stupid, all that matters is the audience reaction. And most reviewers were much more positive than the folks on this topic, even if they were going to come up with alternate uses for the gimmick. It's the ad copy that was really bad and I think colored a lot of views.

Ben liked it and got good reactions. Ekat loved it and got good reactions. For those that disagree, don't buy it. But it is clearly not objectively bad as some claimed.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » SUMMIT by Patrick Kun and Abstract Effects ("It's the trick of the year for me." -Ekaterina) (159 Likes)
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