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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Starting to doubt my hand talent (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Francois Lagrange
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Bob, do you mind telling us who's your teacher, or PM me if you'd rather not make it public. Thanks.
Protect me from my friends, I'll take care of my enemies.
Bob G
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I'll PM you, Francois. I may make it public, but I want to check with him before doing that.
Bob G
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Just tried to PM you and got (paraphrasing): ERROR: user is not currently accepting non-reply PM's.


So PM me and I'll reply. Smile
MGordonB
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Giobbi’s Card College is pretty structured. Each volume builds on the preceding one.

Lorrayne’s The Magic Book is pretty good too.

Simon Lovell did a DVD on Expert at the Card Table. He discusses the book and demonstrates the moves.
Hybrid Hunter
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If you began magic by learning from an Ellusionist magic kit and youtube, you're missing the ability to see how moves are done properly and well.
From the video, are those bridged size cards or are your hands just bigger lol
Might be good to start with a simple deck of bicycle cards and get used to the feel of the cards.

There's no issues with trying to learn lots of moves at once, but you got to make sure you learn them correct the first time around, so that even though it may look sloppy, the technique is right and it's just a matter of time and muscle memory before you get it down right.
martyjacobs
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I've watched your video. First of all, you're way too hard on yourself! Your card handling looks pretty good to me, albeit a little stiff.

Keep practising. Pick the one move from your list that you enjoy doing the most and practice it exclusively for two weeks (no more than one hour each day). It doesn't matter how practical or useful the move is; it is more important that you have the motivation to practice it daily, as Pop Haydn has already mentioned.

When the move goes wrong, analyse why it went wrong and identify what you can do differently next time to stop the problem from re-occurring. This is the difference between deliberate practice and mindless fidgeting. The latter is likely to reinforce lousy technique.

Finding someone who is better than you and is willing to help you is also essential. A magic mentor will help you take advantage of what Lev Vygotsky called the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). In brief, you learn best when you are in the ZPD. That is when you are being helped by someone more knowledgeable or skilful than you are in the subject matter being studied. There are three levels of learning:

1. Things you can do on your own.
2. Things you can accomplish with help from someone else (the ZPD).
3. Things you cannot achieve no matter how much support you receive.

Getting into this zone requires instructional scaffolding. This is what experienced teachers use to provide manageable tasks to their students. These building blocks make the learning process more efficient.

I hope this helps,

Marty

P.S. Education is my day job, so I can say with confidence that this approach works. If you understand the ZPD and scaffolding, you can structure a learning plan to make quicker progress when practicing new moves, tricks, and techniques. However, finding an experienced magic teacher to do this for you is the best approach.
Nikodemus
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Https://www.amazon.co.uk/Practice-Perfec......s&sr=1-1
This book Perfect Practice is excellent.

I have experience of martial arts, dancing & other motor skills. When I watched your video, it looked to me like you were putting much too much force into almost every move.
It is easy to assume that practice will automatically make you more relaxed and smooth. But unfortunately it is also very easy to reinforce bad habits - especially excess tension and force. Ultimately this comes from your mental attitude and manifests in your physical actions.

Here is one simple example -
At 1.37 you flip over a card (or maybe a couple of cards?) on top of the deck. You move your whole right arm to do this! Notice your raised wrist and elbow. Also notice your left hand is holding the deck like a claw. Why are you making this such hard work for yourself? You don't need to use your whole arm to flip over a card; your fingers do the work. Your hands need to cooperate. Get your left thumb to help your right fingers. Keep your elbows on the table. Once you can flip the card over with a minimal ergonomic action, do it again deliberately how you did it in the video. You will realise the difference is enormous. Then you will hopefully start to become more aware of the details of other movements.
Francois Lagrange
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Bob G wrote:
Just tried to PM you and got (paraphrasing): ERROR: user is not currently accepting non-reply PM's.


So PM me and I'll reply. Smile


I sent you a PM.
Protect me from my friends, I'll take care of my enemies.
DerekG
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Keep at it my metal brother. As others have said, stick with the Royal Road to Card Magic and treat it as a lesson plan. Learn the sleights there one at a time before moving to the next. The only exception to this that I suggest is that you may consider skipping the Classic Pass and substitute the Hermann Pass instead.
Kaliix
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How quickly or slowly one picks up card moves is dependent on practice and inherent skill/talent. Some moves will take months of dedicated practice to perform for one person, where another could have it down in a week or less. It just depends.

That being said, I will offer this piece of advice. I personally always focused on effects/routines that I really liked to start. I need the motivation to learn a move so having that routine be the payoff for learning said move always made sense to me. I mean why practice a move if you don't have a need for it. Some will answer well, just because they like card magic, etc. That is fine, but those types of people are inherently motivated and don't need a why.

Also, find routines you like that are easy to do. Not easy in that they are self-working, but easy in that the moves required to perform it are within your reach. Obviously, you will never grow if you don't attempt to learn new card moves, so a balanced approach is recommended so that one keeps an open mind.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Bob G
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Good advice, Kalix. Nothing like excitement about a trick to keep you practicing, and keep the practice fun.


On another topic, folks, I checked with my teacher: he's Rafael Benatar. I recommend him highly. He's on the Café, but doesn't visit that often, so, if you're interested in discussing lessons with him, you can PM me and I'll give you his email. This is a good time to take lessons with him, because things have slowed down do to the Virus-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named.


He also mentioned that he was the Café's Guest of Honor in 2004; I'm planning to look up that thread when I have a chance. Also, he has a whole system of efficient practice, which you can find in Peter McCabe's Scripting Magic, Volume 1.


Bob
TheMetalMagician
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2021, Bob G wrote:

he's Rafael Benatar.



Pat's brother? Smile Smile Smile

(I know, I know. It's okay. I'll see myself out. And I'll refrain from making puns from song titles.)

There really was a lot of good advice in this thread, and according to USPS tracking, RRTCM arrives this morning - can't wait to start reading it and practicing.
Bob G
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Ha ha ha... ! Smile


Enjoy your learning.


Bob
Bob G
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P. S. Just watched your video. I love your pretty blue eyes.


I agree with Marty (sorry, Marty, I'm going to have to stop agreeing with you so much): I'd say you're well on your way, even though very stiff. (I'm not an advanced or even intermediate magician, so don't listen to my advice. Smile ) I forget if someone has said this already, but I think it would help you to watch some videos of good magicians handling cards. I'm still working on lightening my touch -- clutching the cards is apparently a common mistake among beginners. If you watch performances on youtube of, say, Daryl (he went by his first name), or Benatar, or Michael Ammar, or Bill Malone, or Michael Vincent, or Aldo Colombini (to name just a few excellent magicians), you'll see for yourself the light touch to strive for. All of them have disks out if you want to go deeper into their work. Also take a look at Lybrary.com, where you can buy video downloads of Roberto Giobbi demonstrating moves from Card College.
NicholasD25
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Remember, handle the deck like it’s a baby bird. Very gently. The rest will come.
TheMetalMagician
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Off-topic

The hoodie I'm wearing has the album cover of King Diamond's first record "Fatal Portrait". My full outfit when I perform is that hoodie with a black top hat, cape, jeans and shoes. My long-term goal when I first got into magic was to perform for people who get to heavy metal concerts hours early and wait in line, hence the moniker. Since it's a hoodie, it has a nice pocket for storing walkaround props.

It's kind of fortunate and funny that the pandemic delayed that dream, because had it not, I probably would have tried to go out and perform before I was ready.

Magic or no magic, I miss concerts!

End off-topic
TheMetalMagician
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Quick question as I read RRTCM and Mark Wilson's complete course:

Is the glide (p.98 in Mark Wilson's book) supposed to be hard? Just curious. I'm trying to follow the instructions, particularly around where to have the hand and fingers, but it's proving challenging.

Seems useful though.
NicholasD25
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2021, TheMetalMagician wrote:
Quick question as I read RRTCM and Mark Wilson's complete course:

Is the glide (p.98 in Mark Wilson's book) supposed to be hard? Just curious. I'm trying to follow the instructions, particularly around where to have the hand and fingers, but it's proving challenging.

Seems useful though.


Two things: Don't hold the deck too tightly and it may be a little more difficult if your fingers are dry. Other than that, it's basically an easy move.
TheMetalMagician
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2021, NicholasD25 wrote:
Two things: Don't hold the deck too tightly and it may be a little more difficult if your fingers are dry. Other than that, it's basically an easy move.


Thanks. I'll keep practicing. I'm looking forward to being able to do oil and water.
Hookem
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Your video shows you've done some work. But you need to learn proper technique. For example, if you want to learn how to do a strip out false shuffle, study Marlo's Riffle Shuffle Systems. He shows you exactly where the fingers go. You're not going to convince anyone that the deck is being shuffled fairly covering it up the way you're doing. The shuffle and handling needs to be more open. In fact, the more visible the deck, the more convincing the shuffle when it is properly performed. Also, the strip out motion itself is forward not backward. In Racherbaumer's Card Finesse, he shows how you can air out the deck to speed up the strip out, particularly if you are using a used deck. But I always use a new deck when performing. You've got the idea, but your technique needs adjustment and finesse. Charlie Miller once said, "It is amazing how proficient one gets when he [or she] perform a move consecutively 1,000 times." That is exactly how it works for me. The standard for a sleight is it must look the same as if you are shuffling or cutting fairly. So shuffle fairly and make sure the strip out shuffle looks the same.

I agree with Papa Hayden's comment to learn the sleights to help you perform effects you want to achieve for an audience. That is how I have learned difficult sleights. Learning the sleight is the price to pay to perform the effect.

Sybil is strictly a show-off move and should be used only as part of an effect. Card fanning takes a knack. Just keep doing it until you get it.
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