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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » The "click" when culling (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nikodemus
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Just about every description of the Cull refers to the "click" of the following card into position. (This seems to apply to descriptions of both "push" or "pull" style of cull).
When I cull, the stolen card(s) always goes quite deep into my right hand, so my fingers can comfortably reach the left edge of the card. Therefore I can feel the relationship of the cards. I don't need to listen for a click. The click would only seem important if the culled card is held much less deep in the hand (more of an at-the-fingertips feeling). I am curious to know if this is indeed where others hold it?
ssibal
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I’ve only ever experienced the “click” for the first culled card. Any subsequent culled cards feel normal.
jim ferguson
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
I don't need to listen for a click.




Usually, the slight "click" is felt rather than heard.





Jim
Hybrid Hunter
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There shouldn't and need not be an audible click when culling. It's more of a helpful guide when learning to understand where the cards are during the act of culling.
Eventually, you'll get to a point where you don't need a click, you feel the card is sufficiently culled and continue to spreading action to either cull more cards to finish spreading the cards.
fonda57
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Don't concern yourself with the click so much as doing the cull well. don't worry about the click, anyway. it will go away in time
I j
Nikodemus
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Thanks for the replies. I am not "concerned" about the click. I'm really more interested to hear whether people hold the card under the spread at their fingertips, or deeper in the hand
Hybrid Hunter
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I hold the card at my fingertips, as that's how I learnt it from Kostya Kimlat's Roadrunner Cull.
I did play with the deeper in the hand grip, which is how Michael Vincent does his cull, but it doesn't allow me to cull multiple cards really quickly like the roadrunner.
Nikodemus
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Hybrid Hunter,
Thanks for that. I have a copy of KK's Roadrunner. Need to watch it again!

I am thinking I might start to practice the fingertips position, as an alternative technique. I am pretty sure I have seen Michael Vincent do it that way at least once - but can't remember where. It was an under-spread force, and I'm sure (in that context) he did not have the card deep in his hand.
Nikodemus
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Although I bought RoadRunner, I preferred the technique in CullFather. I think this is based on the Prayer Cull??? The way I do it (which I *think* is what Iain Moran taught) is to nest the culled card(s) quite deep in my right hand. This means my fingertips comfortably reach the left side of the culled cards. I find this makes it easy to keep them under control. And easy to guide cards under/over that edge to selectively cull multiple cards.
I assumed this was the normal position (it's very comfortable). I've just re-watched my Michael Vincent DVD's. He seems to hold the culled cards much less deeply. His fingertips are under the middle of the cards, not the leading (left) edge.

I am now wondering - anyone else out there hold the cards deep like me???
Nikodemus
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Michael Vincent does an Under Spread Force (in KISMET).
I can do a version where you square the cards, and show the face of the force card. But Michael does a version where he very cleanly hands the card to the spectator (without showing its face). I have realised this is much easier if I hold the force card at the fingertips. But almost impossible from my deep hold.
So I am thinking I should maybe use deep hold for culling multiple cards, and finger tip hold for forcing.
Anyone else cull the cards differently for different circumstances?
Daren
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I use Larry Jennings Wedge Cull, suits me perfectly
dustrod
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I would think the click would have less to do with how deep you hold the card in your hand and more to do with the angle of the card as it's culled or the pressure of your left hand grip.
Blindside785
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Imagine the the cards that are being held in the spread are separated in 2 halves. If the left hand packet is tilted down more towards the floor and not level and parrallel to the ground as the right hand packet is then when the card is culled out the last long left edge that leaves the left hand packet to become fully culled will cause the edge to CLICK due card underneath it not being level or more parralel to the ground causing the culled card to click against the card underneath. That left edge of the culled card is "falling" off the card underneath it after being separated from the left hand packet.

Basically if you pause and turn the front edge of the cards towards yourself it shouldn't look like a "Oceanic Convergent Boundary". If you google that image you will see what I mean.

So to fix this tilt your left hand fingers or wrist up or rotate them slightly to counterclockwise, don't relax them as much.
Tortuga
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I'm wondering whether the term "click" refers to a sound at all. In other words, we jump to the conclusion that a click will make noise, but I've seen people try to snap their fingers with little audible result. Are they not still snapping? Is it the action that is a snap, or is it the resulting sound? As silly as this may sound, pun intended, try describing the action that occurs when the first card is culled. There is that little feeling that occurs and sometimes results in an audible sound. So if it is quiet, how would you describe that same feeling? Is it a bumping feeling? That doesn't seem to fit. So maybe the best way is to just call it a click whether you hear it or not?
countrymaven
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Nikodemus, your insights are very educated IMHO. Yes. Cullfather is the download to watch. At the same time, you can also learn MUCH, VERY MUCH, surprisingly, from Michael Vincent on his short time spent on the cull in his Penguin live lecture.

Basically, if you are doing a cull with a few cards, then there is much to learn from Michael Vincent. But Cullfather, by Ian Moran, is an excellent foundation for the cull.

You might have to do a deep hold for many cards in a cull, but for one to a few, you can do a fingertip style like the wonderful Sir Michael Vincent does.
Nikodemus
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Hi Countrymaven,
Thanks for your kind words.
And for your clear, useful response - as ever.
Nick
cfirwin3
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I'm late to the party.
I sometimes feel a click and sometimes not. It is never heard and I don't use it as an indicator. I do pull the card(s) fairly deep but not past the right most cover card in the spread. I keep the culled card pretty shallow and I square it and any additional cards that I cull with the tips of the fingers of the left hand. I suppose that the squaring action is the real indicator for me that everything is clear.

I use the cull for just about everything from control to forcing. So once I pull a card, it can always go right back into the spread wherever I want. There is no 'point of no return' for me, where the culled card(s) get placed deep enough to prevent them from going back to the spread, if that makes sense.
Nikodemus
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I use both my left & right fingers to "manage" the leading edge of the culled cards (when culling multiples). This feels very secure to me.

I guess with all techniques, we get comfortable with how it feels a certain way - then it feels "wrong" when we do it differently. I like having the cards deep, but I think I will work on doing it at the fingertips too.

I got a tip from the RoadRunner DVD when I started learning the cull. Kostya recommended using the left index finger to hide the front edge of the cards. (He said he never learnt this & felt it was too much effort for him to re-train his muscle memory now) I always do this. It means I don't need to tip the cards down to hide the edge (as K said). It does mean my left pinkie can't reach the inner edge of the cards - but it's fine, I got used to it pretty quickly.
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On May 18, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
Michael Vincent does an Under Spread Force (in KISMET).
I can do a version where you square the cards, and show the face of the force card. But Michael does a version where he very cleanly hands the card to the spectator (without showing its face). I have realised this is much easier if I hold the force card at the fingertips. But almost impossible from my deep hold.
So I am thinking I should maybe use deep hold for culling multiple cards, and finger tip hold for forcing.
Anyone else cull the cards differently for different circumstances?


I have just re-watched MV's explanation, and realised I missed a crucial detail.
I thought he had the culled card at his right fingertips, but I was confused because he shows the position a couple of times by raising the cards in his LEFT hand.
In fact he holds the culled force card deep in his right hand. The spectator touches a card in the middle of the spread (miles away from the culled card). Then he casually collapses the the spread into his right hand. This is what brings the touched card & culled card close together - NOT him trying to feed the culled card to the middle of the spread.
I'm amazed I missed this. I guess it was because he does it so naturally!
Tortuga
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This is a good lesson for folks that have struggled with a description, whether it be in writing or on video. If you are having difficulty, go back and review, you might find that you missed something, or misunderstood something.
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