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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The workers Ľ Ľ Hofzinser Spread Cull? (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sanukk
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I've been using the Hofzinser Spread Cull for quite a while now. What do you guys do if the card (or one of the cards if culling more than one) is right at the top? Whenever this has happened to me, I've just cut the deck and started from there, but I feel there is probably a more elegant way to deal with the situation.

As this is public, references rather than specific methods is probably better, but what's the best way to approach this?
The Burnaby Kid
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How did you get into this situation? Are you trying to do a face-up cull of four of a kind or something?
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Claudio
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I never gave this a lot of thought, and itís likely there may be more efficient solutions which are context sensitive, but hereís what I usually do:

If I have only one card to cull and it happens to be the very first one on the face of the pack, I simply turn the deck face down and give it an overhand shuffle to bring the card to the top.

If itís a multi-card cull and one of them is the very first one, I simply double-undercut it to the top and then go into the spread cull.
Sanukk
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On Feb 18, 2021, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
How did you get into this situation? Are you trying to do a face-up cull of four of a kind or something?


It's not something that comes up often, it's for an effect I do where I cull four of a kind (which four depends on the specs selection) with the cards face up. But even if something comes up very rarely, after enough performances it'll happen, and I've been doing this effect for years (decades really). As I said, what I've done before is just cut and cull as normal, but playing around while in lockdown has got me analysing everything I do and was curious if there was another way to deal with this when it comes up.
The Burnaby Kid
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If it were me, I'd probably find a way to get a glimpse, and if one of them was at the face, do a side-steal from bottom to top, then proceed. If after this another of the four of a kind was at the face of the deck, I'd go out and buy a lottery ticket.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Claudio
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The odds of two kings together on the face of the deck are 1/221, I believe. So I'm not sure it'd warrant buying a lottery ticket in the hope of winning the jackpot. Some smaller prizes, maybe?
The Burnaby Kid
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Sigh.

Well, there goes college for the kids...
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
JonHackl
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Cut and cull is fine, I think, but you could also cull and cut. So cull the other three to the top of the deck (bottom of the face-up deck), then flip the deck over face-down and double-undercut the bottom card to the top.

If you like killing small insects with heavy artillery, you could clip shift instead of double-undercut, haha.
"Magic is the only kind of entertainment where 90% of the audience is trying to ruin it for themselves." - Pete Holmes
countrymaven
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Hi Sanuuk,
All of these answers are probably wrong. it goes to show you that magicians fool themselves first, more than anyone else. They will come up with an overly complex sleight to something that requires only a subtle twist. I refer you to Ian Moran's Cullfather.
there, you get a subtle and easy way to deal with this. The spectator is not expecting anything, right? So do what Moran advises.
Simple subtle, and don't run when you aren't being chased.
The Burnaby Kid
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On Feb 18, 2021, countrymaven wrote:
Hi Sanuuk,
All of these answers are probably wrong.


You were at my gigs, were you?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Sanukk
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On Feb 19, 2021, countrymaven wrote:
I refer you to Ian Moran's Cullfather.
there, you get a subtle and easy way to deal with this. The spectator is not expecting anything, right? So do what Moran advises.
Simple subtle, and don't run when you aren't being chased.

I'm actually bidding on a copy of that in a job lot of other magic at the moment, hopefully I'll get it. Thanks.
Francois Lagrange
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2021, countrymaven wrote:
Hi Sanuuk,
All of these answers are probably wrong. it goes to show you that magicians fool themselves first, more than anyone else. They will come up with an overly complex sleight to something that requires only a subtle twist. I refer you to Ian Moran's Cullfather.
there, you get a subtle and easy way to deal with this. The spectator is not expecting anything, right? So do what Moran advises.
Simple subtle, and don't run when you aren't being chased.


Dismissing all those guys' suggestions without even explaining why takes some nerve. And if a double undercut is overly complex for you, you should probably take on another hobby.

I don't believe there are wrong answers, just different ones adapted to the situation and/or one's skills.

The double undercut makes sense to me, as opposed to cutting to lose the card and culling it to top which seems waistful. But, if it works, why not?
Protect me from my friends, I'll take care of my enemies.
PressureFan
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Ditto the method in Cullfather. It's the only place I've seen the problem addressed. Overt, but straightforward and practical.
Claudio
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I donít know the method described in the Cullfather as I don't have the DVD, but something obvious that comes to mind after reading the comments above is: peeling the card into the right hand, a couple more and then going into spreading the deck.

I hope itís more subtle than that, but what I described could actually work although a bit awkward looking.
drumdemon420
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The Cullfather is a solid dvd with good stuff that can be applied to most culls but it's not the Hofzinser Cull. Just a heads up.
Nikodemus
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On Feb 19, 2021, drumdemon420 wrote:
The Cullfather is ... not the Hofzinser Cull.


I thought it was?
countrymaven
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Yes Pressure Fan, I agree. While I have most of the good stuff on culling, I think the Cullfather by Ian Moran is incredibly well done. Also, it really works. People are not looking for you to cull cards. So if one or two are near the top, they will not suspect that you are collecting them in one location. I refuse to comment or give this away. Because to do so would be to cheat magicians of the treasures in the Cullfather by Moran.

The Cullfather is the Hofnizer cull. Just because someone slightly improves on how to push the cards, and tells why--(and many others such as Aaron Fisher agree with this method, and its advantages) does not mean it is no longer the Hofnizer cull.

Francois, please do not presume a move is beyond the ability of a performer. The cull, however, is at its best when it just seems that you are casually spreading through the cards with a simple reason for doing so. Adding a lot of flipping and cutting is just what you do not need with the cull. The cull will do it all for you, almost, while you simply appear to go through the deck, showing the faces to the spectators.

Obviously anyone can do any wild move, twist, triple cut and flourish they want to. But people are wiser than you think. The cull, well done, allows you to go through the cards, showing the spectator, then have all the work basically done. Without anything to give it away. There is a place for moves. But when I do the cull, I try to make it seem as "move free" as possible. IF you doubt how effective it can be, see some of Kostya Kimlat's successes in tv challenge shows. It seems absolutely miraculous.
Nikodemus
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On Feb 19, 2021, Claudio wrote:
I donít know the method described in the Cullfather as I don't have the DVD, but something obvious that comes to mind after reading the comments above is: peeling the card into the right hand, a couple more and then going into spreading the deck.

I hope itís more subtle than that, but what I described could actually work although a bit awkward looking.


This is indeed the technique recommended in The Cullfather. The subtlety comes from misdirection. Eg pause and ask a question before switching from peeling too spreading.
Claudio
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On Feb 20, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 19, 2021, Claudio wrote:
I donít know the method described in the Cullfather as I don't have the DVD, but something obvious that comes to mind after reading the comments above is: peeling the card into the right hand, a couple more and then going into spreading the deck.

I hope itís more subtle than that, but what I described could actually work although a bit awkward looking.


This is indeed the technique recommended in The Cullfather. The subtlety comes from misdirection. Eg pause and ask a question before switching from peeling too spreading.


Thanks, Nikodemus. The pedestrian nature of the "technique" hardly makes it a state secret and I appreciate your confirming my guess.

Itís an OK solution (though not new), but I donít believe it superior to any of the other suggestions offered on this thread.

One may disagree, of course.
JonHackl
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I'm still not sure how giving the deck a cut or two, before or after the cull, is some wild and fancy move. I cut the cards frequently when I'm doing nothing, partly so that if I need to cut them for some reason it looks innocuous. (also because it's just something I do when cards are in my hands, trick or no trick; and because casual false cuts while talking are great if you have a set-up but you want to appear that the order doesn't matter to you--as you should want when you have a set-up!)

For me to spread through the cards under some pretext, then close the cards, flip them over, and give them a cut, is as natural a thing as could happen, especially since there's no rush to do the cut so there can be a delay. Or getting a peek of the bottom card and then cutting if necessary before turning the deck face up. Are there really magicians out there who can do a cull but would look suspicious getting a peek and doing a straight cut?

I mean, the peeling thing is fine too. But the only "fancy" or "wild" suggestion in this thread was my joke about using the clip shift, but I'm sure we all knew that was meant to be silly.
"Magic is the only kind of entertainment where 90% of the audience is trying to ruin it for themselves." - Pete Holmes
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The workers Ľ Ľ Hofzinser Spread Cull? (8 Likes)
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