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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Coins for Samoya (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

shakuni
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Hi, Is there a place that sell coin set for Samoya. Something that is available as retail and not on custom order. Thanks.
Scott Horn
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I asked the same in another thread... "Trick coin trickery The best Sun & Moon routine."
Haven't found a source that has the "right" configuration "off the shelf" with respect to Heads/Tails, [ and C/S.
In the sets I've seen, the C/S and the [ both show the same face (i.e. both are heads). I, unfortunately, have purchased two S&M sets but neither has the right Heads/Tails configuration. This doesn't impact performance, but it does create a visual discrepancy.
Twocan has mentioned he may be making some in the future with the appropriate configuration.
stevie c
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On Mar 5, 2021, Scott Horn wrote:
I asked the same in another thread... "Trick coin trickery The best Sun & Moon routine."
Haven't found a source that has the "right" configuration "off the shelf" with respect to Heads/Tails, [ and C/S.
In the sets I've seen, the C/S and the [ both show the same face (i.e. both are heads). I, unfortunately, have purchased two S&M sets but neither has the right Heads/Tails configuration. This doesn't impact performance, but it does create a visual discrepancy.
Twocan has mentioned he may be making some in the future with the appropriate configuration.


Hey Scott,

I’m not sure what you mean regarding the discrepancy? I’ve been obsessed by this routine and similar ones for some time. After searching high and low for an ‘off the shelf set’ I had one custom made. Then, like you, I realised it’s possible to improvise and make a great set for little money. By taking the sun / moon and shell from a HH set, and shaving down a regular silver to also fit the shell, you have exactly what you need? There is no discrepancy. I’ve made two from Johnson HH sets and another from a UK 10p / 2p HH set from alakazam. Like I said, I’m fully familiar with the routine, and the phases where a discrepancy can occur, but with the requisite components from a HH set there shouldn’t be any discrepancy.

BW

Steve
karnak
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By what method do you “shave down” a coin to fit a shell, if — like me — you’re not expert in such matters?

What do use to do so, and how exactly do you go about it?
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stevie c
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On Mar 5, 2021, karnak wrote:
By what method do you “shave down” a coin to fit a shell, if — like me — you’re not expert in such matters?

What do use to do so, and how exactly do you go about it?


Hi Karnak.

I am certainly no expert either. I use good old fashioned sand paper. It has worked a treat on two clad half dollars and a UK 10p. I just go nice and steady and continually rotate the coin in my fingers as I’m sanding the edge. Go very easy and gentle as you keep checking whether you’ve taken enough off for it to nest snugly in the shell ....you don’t want to force it in and jam it!!

It’s worked a treat for me all three times so far and took about 30 minutes each time.

Drop me a pm if you need any more info buddy or to see photos 👍

Best wishes

Steve
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2021, stevie c wrote:
I use good old fashioned sand paper.


What grit?
stevie c
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On Mar 6, 2021, inigmntoya wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2021, stevie c wrote:
I use good old fashioned sand paper.


What grit?


Hi Inigmntoya,

Depends on how much needs shaving off. For me, when I was shaving a clad Kennedy half to fit the unexpanded [ from a Johnson HH set, I used a medium (80) grit initially, and when I was getting close to where I needed to be, switch to a fine or very fine (120/180) grit to lfinish, and leave a smooth edge.

I also always fit an ultra thin layer of mouse tape to the unexpanded shell before I start, as I strive for an ultra snug fit....zero talking is good news for samoya and S et L. Got to:-

mousetape.com

Obviously some trial and error is involved, but as I live in the UK, doing it myself seemed a good option as custom sets are hard to come by. The three sets that I’ve improvised are at least as good to perform with as the one I had made.

On a separate note, I’ve also now used sandpaper to create two great ‘Chinatown’ gimmicks, but this did take several days so certainly wouldn’t be for everyone!!!! Again, if anyone wants info just pm me.

BW

Steve
videoman
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I’ve used sandpaper on a couple coins that would get stuck occasionally and it worked great. Although if you need to remove too much the edge milling can disappear which does not look good IMO. Of course many types of coins have no edge milling in which case that is obviously not a concern.

On a side note, one of the gaffed coins I used sandpaper on in the past is a Morgan Flipper which inigmntoya is familiar with. 😃
Scott Horn
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Ref stevie g - It seems like you do understand what I meant by "discrepancy," but the be clear.. I mean that when you have a C/S coin with a ] on top, for the Samoya routine it needs to show Heads on one side and Tails on the other. Of the Sun & Moon sets I have purchased, when the coins are nested, both sides show the same (i.e. Heads/Heads)

As to sanding down coins... I strongly recommend you do NOT use anything less fine than 400 grit. You can take off a good amount of metal by varying the pressure you apply. Rougher grits will definitely leave scratch marks
videoman
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On Mar 10, 2021, Scott Horn wrote:


As to sanding down coins... I strongly recommend you do NOT use anything less fine than 400 grit. You can take off a good amount of metal by varying the pressure you apply. Rougher grits will definitely leave scratch marks


Yes, I agree. On the faces of the coins only 400 or higher grit, or 0000 steel wool. On the edges of the coins I will use lower grits because scratches are not really a concern. But in either case, slow and steady is key. The old rule that you can always take more off but can’t put it back on is very true here. Especially if you’re working on a difficult to replace gaff costing hundreds of dollars.
stevie c
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On Mar 10, 2021, Scott Horn wrote:
Ref stevie g - It seems like you do understand what I meant by "discrepancy," but the be clear.. I mean that when you have a C/S coin with a ] on top, for the Samoya routine it needs to show Heads on one side and Tails on the other. Of the Sun & Moon sets I have purchased, when the coins are nested, both sides show the same (i.e. Heads/Heads)

As to sanding down coins... I strongly recommend you do NOT use anything less fine than 400 grit. You can take off a good amount of metal by varying the pressure you apply. Rougher grits will definitely leave scratch marks



Hey Scott,

A HH copper / silver when nested in the unexpanded shell absolutely SHOULD show a head and a tail......I’ve never had one that doesn’t (Johnson, UK versions etc). No discrepancy at all!!!

And the sandpaper grits I mentioned have worked out wonderfully for me on the edge of a coin.....as I said, I now have three DIY sets I can confidently use for Samoya, which are super snug with zero ‘talking’ 👍

Each to their own though, and an interesting thread.

BW

Steve
Scott Horn
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Ah... but a HH set is different than a Sun & Moon set.. but if I understand you have the Sun & Moon coins within a HH set, correct ?
stevie c
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On Mar 11, 2021, Scott Horn wrote:
Ah... but a HH set is different than a Sun & Moon set.. but if I understand you have the Sun & Moon coins within a HH set, correct ?


Yes, a sun / moon forms part of a HH set..... and there is no discrepancy or anomaly. When the copper/silver insert is nested inside the unexpanded shell, it can be shown both sides (heads/tails).

In point of fact, the original routines (samoya / soleil et line) called for an expanded shell that nested a copper / silver, and this meant that the regular coin didn’t have to be shaved down. These sets are pretty hard to come by, which is why I (and presumably others) have improvised with the more readily available unexpanded sun / moon sets.

BW

Steve
stevie c
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On Mar 5, 2021, shakuni wrote:
Hi, Is there a place that sell coin set for Samoya. Something that is available as retail and not on custom order. Thanks.


Hi Shakuni. I'm not sure if you got sorted with a coin set for Samoya, but if not it might be worth checking here:-

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/127......9eR_DiHo

From what I can see, both the clad half dollar sun/moon set and the WL sun/moon set are provided with a regular coin that also nests in the shell. Bingo!!!

BW

Steve
emyers99
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I agree. The tcc set seems to fit the bill...i think. Says the half dollar is shaved and remilled to be able to fir in the shell
Chessmann
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The oliver Magic Sun Moon set that can be found on Amazon is a surprisingly good value for the money, and will do SAMOYA. I'm pretty picky, but I'm very pleased. It does use a replica Morgan (at least it doesn't say "COPY" on it, haha) and a replica Sovereign, but the fit and finish is very good - adding a layer of foil to the shell makes it perfect. It is not likely as rugged as other sets, but considering the price, it is an outstanding value.

Both coins fit the shell.

If you go for their Hopping Half set, you will be getting the S/M set plus an additional copper shell and an additional silver shell.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZVC......F8&psc=1
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