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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » What's your follow up system? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nash
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Just curious, how often do you follow up with your lead after an inquiry has arrived in your voicemail/inbox/having chatted on the phone with the client? Each market is certainly different, ex. for the wedding market, I once heard a speaker in the wedding industry said it takes an average of 7 follow ups to secure a booking or even hear back from the bride. The college market is even more flakey lol.

If I get a lead from an e-form on my website that find me by web search / social media, I will set a note to follow up in
A- 5 days if the lead didn't open my email (I use email tracking service, not 100% reliable but good enough for me)
B- 7 days if they had opened the email but didn't respond

And then another email in
A- 5 more days if they didn't open the follow up email
B- 7 more days if they had opened the follow up email but didn't respoind

after that, I'll call. (For me, if the lead has expressed they had seen my show before or had found me from word of mouth, I tend to follow up less (every 10 -14 days). To me, the more familiar the lead is with your work, the less I want to bug them. They prob. already are set on hiring you and are just waiting for budget to be approved by their bosses, etc..)

On the other hand, if the lead did not respond to either my email/voicemail after 5 follow ups, I move on and declare it as a lost gig.

Curious to see what's your system gang? cheers Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

Corporate event magician
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 14, 2021, Nash wrote:
I once heard a speaker in the wedding industry said it takes an average of 7 follow ups to secure a booking or even hear back from the bride. The college market is even more flakey lol.


While I am not willing to share my follow-up system just for the asking, I will share some thoughts, insight, and experience.

The quote above is, as is so common since the advent of the internet, taken out of context and in the context offered, I would claim not true. Having been heavily in the wedding business for over 30 years, if you haven't heard back from a bride by the 7th follow-up, she's not interested in you, period. Brides often know what they want, and if they don't they do almost immediately once they see it or it has been presented to them. By the time you get to the 7th follow-up, they have already decided on someone else or were just tire kicking for something way down the road that they are not interested in booking yet anyhow.

What the person you said you heard this info from was trying to adapt to his interests is what is commonly referred to as The Marketing Rule of 7 (also referred to as The Rule of 7 In Marketing) which goes way back to an 1890 book called Successful Advertising by Thomas Smith. It stated a prospect needs to hear the advertiser's message at least 7 times before they'll take action to buy that product or service. It was a generalization created by the marketing industry. It was also later adapted and was used by the movie industry in the 1930s.

Times and media have changed. While it may still hold some truths in some mediums, in today's instant or immediate "I want it now" or instant expectations, in some mediums, this is simply untrue and can be ineffective. Context is important and much of the context this was applied to has changed or been eliminated. This was heavily used in print advertising sales to get businesses to run at least 7 (often 10) consistent and congruent ads in their media buys. It was later adapted to broadcast radio to get advertisers to buy a schedule of ads for "maximum reach and impact."

This is a great topic and I hope others will join in as well. I do agree and believe that success is in the follow-up. But this is also what I talk about when I mention having the right, proper, and effective sales presentation and promotional materials for your act/business. This alone can change the "7 factor" and blow it out of the water. Most (just over 80%) of our business books on the first contact. The majority of the other 20 percent call us back (not us doing follow-up) within a week to book in most markets. So if you have a strong sales presentation component in your business operational system and a top closing ratio, there is much less need for the Rule of 7s, so much follow-up, and run around. Also if you are offering something unique that they can't get anywhere else, that too can be a huge factor in more immediate bookings and less follow-up.
Dannydoyle
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I don't follow up at all. They get sold on first contact or they don't. Time is money in my world and 7 contacts would be ridiculous.

Either they like me or they don't. I won't waste my time or theirs with further sales strategy. If I am contacting them 7 times, I need to work on my first 6 contacts. Something is definitely wrong somewhere. (Mind you this is for just me, not for everyone.)

Here is what I offer and it either fits you or it won't.

It also comes to how they find me. Almost all (Actually all I believe.) my work comes from people seeing me work. I do literally nothing to solicit people to buy. They are seeking me actively, not the other way around. This puts the relationship on an entirely different foundation. I have the show and the days they want, they do not have the event I want to work at. It changes the entire dynamic of how the sales relationship goes and is handled. Negotiations are non existent. You buy or you don't. It gives you a much stronger position.

Follow up is the same in my eyes. Doing it that often gives them a sense of power and you a look of desperation and the feel of an open calendar. (I'm not saying it is true just what it looks like.)

This is why I simply don't bother with it at all. I could continue, but since I am certain I am an outlier I won't continue.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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I'm with Danny on this. Following up makes you looks desperate. I know all the marketing experts say its important and I'm probably missing some business, but its also very far from my personalty....and I hate it!

I look at it this way. When I have a customer on the phone (or send out a mailing or set up my web site) I have the frame of mind that this is my one shot at making the sale. Therefore, I put all of effort and professionalism into that moment or that one design.

The only exception to this is when I'm holding the date for someone and I have another customer interested in that date. But here again, I'm in the power position. If they don't book, I will probably be booked without them. I'm not desperate.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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Dannydoyle
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Yep.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Before you worry about follow ups, you may want to worry about qualifying the leads.

If it’s a qualified lead a follow up may be worth my time (a follow up... not 7!).
TomBoleware
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For most, the magic business is the same as sales work unless you’re in big demand or willing and satisfied with just taking what comes your way. But for many, it’s constant prospecting and marketing because when the show is over you’re out of work.Smile

So how many times do you follow up? As many times as it takes to get an answer.

My suggestion is to qualify all the leads and then schedule all your follow-ups, this way you won’t feel like you are bugging the client/prospect, you’re simply doing what you said you would do. Always let em know that you will be getting back to them. So again, how many times do you follow up? As many times as it takes to get the job done.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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What is "the job" you are trying to get done exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Mar 16, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
What is "the job" you are trying to get done exactly?


To write it in or to write it off

The works not finished until you get a yea or nay

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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And so ends the lesson kids on how you end up with a high number of follow up calls.

If one wants to spend their time chasing down what will most likely be a no that is up to you. But spouting silly rah rah slogans about sales is a waste of time.

I'd be interested in knowing how many closings happen on 6th or 7th contact?

Kirby does NOT come back to your house. They demo and sell it or don't. NO WAY they waste time on one return, much less 6.

Again just an opinion.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, why don’t you call a successful Kirby salesman, tell’em you have seen several demos before but you would like to see it one more time and see how long it takes for him to knock on your door. I bet he will come running. Sure he may not do the complete demo again, but he will be happy to talk to you about a vacuum cleaner.


Oh, by the way, here’s the thing about vacuum cleaners. It doesn’t matter if you have the best or the worst because at the end of the day they all suck.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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No they won't. You are just wrong. But keep going because that never stopped you before. You don't get to rewrite the Kirby sales force rules. They are based on doing the demo and getting the sale PERIOD. They do not compete unless you are in Tom fantasy land. They KNOW you don't have other demo's lined up because NOBODY ELSE DOES THEM. You can bet he will come running, but you will lose. It is NOT the way they work. You can't just make stuff up Tom. (Well I guess you have proven you CAN, but you should stop really.)

And more to the point is that the idea of keeping at it until you have a yes or a no is RIDICULOUS and should NOT be the way people operate. At some point just take a hint. (I know not your strong suit either.) Often people say no in many ways other than the actual word "no". Not answering is one of those ways. And the WORST part is that when you do that and pester people you end up jeopardizing FUTURE YES answers! You make yourself such a pest that they don't want to deal with you any more because of the high annoyance level of doing so.

Also it is a HORRENDOUS waste of your time and their time. Time is money for everyone.

Let your product speak more than you speak. Don't look desperate and don't bother people. Imagine you want to buy a product or service. Would you do it from someone who seemed desperate or just won't leave you alone once you asked about it? Do you want someone using those hard sell techniques on you? If not then why in the name of my aunt Fanny would you use them on others?

But keep telling silly jokes as if they are relevant.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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LOL Danny, I don’t have to make stuff up, I help write a few sales training manuals.

Self-employed business people can learn a lot from direct-selling companies like Kirby. Unlike car sales, Kirby uses a soft-sell approach. But not taking no for an answer doesn’t mean being high pressure, it just means being persistent and doing it tactfully with a smile on your face. The average vacuum salesperson hears ‘no’ 8 or more times before making a sale. The number one reason salespeople fail in sales is dealing with rejections. It’s not for everybody.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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More bumpkin business. Well this thread was nice while it lasted.
Mindpro
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This is also why entertainment business and selling entertainment business is different from conventional business. Thank you for proving my point.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Mar 17, 2021, Mindpro wrote:
More bumpkin business. Well this thread was nice while it lasted.



Who said it was over?

Why would you suggest giving up on a topic about being persistent with follow-ups. Smile

Oh I got it, your time is worth something. Actually, in most cases, it's not.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 17, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2021, Mindpro wrote:
More bumpkin business. Well this thread was nice while it lasted.



Why would you suggest giving up on a topic about being persistent with follow-ups. Smile


Tom

Because once you start you NEVER STOP. You have been proven wrong time and again and you just keep going. (Ironically like an annoying salesman who won't take no for an answer.)

But hey guys follow Tom's advice. IF you want to spend your time hearing the word NO 8 times then be my guest! Go ahead Tom pontificate on it like it is anything but a bad example.

Tom PLEASE STOP. Take the "no" here and don't make it be your traditional 8 times.

And the DO NOT use a soft sell approach in the least Tom. My lord what is your record for number of times being wrong in the same thread?

Oh and by the way they hear the word "no" 8 or more times, FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE! NOT from the same prospect Tom. Seriously dude get over yourself. Good sales is absolutely NOT about badgering someone into submission. It is about finding a need and filling that need. Badgering someone who does not want your product is NOT part of any good sales course. I can't speak for those you have written.

And you ARE making stuff up because Kirby does NOT go back to prospects. It is one and done. So again you can "bet" anything you want about your fantasy land stuff and it doesn't matter. What is, is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny you act so clueless it is funny.

Who said anything about Badgering people? If you want to run on the first No you get, that’s ok. But that doesn’t mean everybody else should do the same. Nor should everybody do as I say. But please, stop pretending that if you don’t agree with something it is wrong. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

And yes Kirby does go back when you ask them too, they may tell you that you only get to see it once, but that too is part of the sales script. They will come back, true they don't waste time, but they DO NOT turn down sales opportunities.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

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Dannydoyle
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So now you just make up anything you like for companies you do not work for? Oh lord.

STOP PLEASE STOP.

Nash did NOT ask about Kirby. He asked about follow up. We get it. You hear 8 no answers and you keep going no matter what. Which is DIRECTLY contradictory to your statement of once you get an answer you stop. NO is an answer and you get 8 of them and keep going! To quote YOU it is "The work isn't finished until you get a yay or a nay". Well that is simply not what you have said. YOU listen to as many as 8 nays and STILL KEEP GOING!

Now go ahead call me clueless again please. The irony is fun.

You are saying that you keep at it until you get a yes. Do you actually read what you type Tom? In a few posts you have dragged this thread off into the swamp and drown it again. Your harsh sales techniques simply are not applicable to entertainment. Being a pest is not useful when it comes to entertainment sales. You should stop encouraging folks to do so.

Would you please stop or are you going to contradict yourself yet again?

And to answer your question about who said anything about badgering anyone? YOU DID. Here is the definition of the word. https://www.thehindu.com/books/know-your......1330.ece Hearing as many as 8 no answers and keeping at it is definitely badgering.

PLEASE STOP.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny you right, Nash did NOT ask about Kirby, you were the first one to pretend to be a Kirby sales expert. Now to be clear on exactly what I said to Nash was:

“My suggestion is to QUALIFY all the leads and then SCHEDULE ALL YOUR FOLLOW-UPS, this way you won’t feel like you are bugging the client/prospect, you’re simply doing what you said you would do.”

Now please stop your badgering me.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
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