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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » What's your follow up system? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 18, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:

I'll stop with the only two real secrets to sales success:

Tom


Almost an entire day this time Tom. A new record!

To address your post yes they do not have time to talk to every "person trying to sell them something". WHICH IS WHY COMING OFF LIKE A SALESMAN WITH SILLY SALES SLOGANS AND TECHNIQUES IS NOT GOOD! This is why it is silly to promote those tactics and techniques you so love. When you do those things you get put right in the category of just another sales call and are handled by someone else.

See you see things from the prospect of being the guy knocking. You can't get your head in the space of the guy answering the door. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. Most people in that position realize they are dealing with a person who won't talk to non decision makers and not only respect it but want to deal with those people. You have never been in such a position so you can't imagine how it works. Cool no harm no foul. But please do not ruin the point as you always do simply because of your lack of experience.

See if someone is just shopping, and just wants information then they can talk to someone who just gives them information. BUT if they want to have someone make a decision, then they talk to a decision maker. It is that simple and that complicated. There is no "being careful" if you are NOT PERCEIVED AS JUST ANOTHER SALESMAN! Again it starts from the first point of contact. It goes on from there.

Don't be fooled. OFTEN the secretary IS the final word on the subject. OFTEN THEY are the ones who take care of all the details and when they call you ARE talking to a decision maker. NOBODY HERE said a WORD about a secretary except for Tom in an attempt to beat his own personal best at number of times wrong in one thread. But things can get so silly that you end up talking with the secretary of a guy who can't say yes to your sale.

Plus don't forget it usually comes to HOW did they find you in the first place? It is why that matters SO much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Donald Dunphy
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On Mar 19, 2021, Mindpro wrote:
Donald, out of curiosity do you speak to them yourself or have someone do it on your behalf (wide, partner, employee, etc.)?

I have my own strong beliefs on this but would value your thoughts.


Hi Mindpro -

Yes, I speak with my customers myself. And pretty much all booking conversations happen over the phone. I also look forward to meeting my customers in-person at their event.

I've had a very limited experience with agents. Some of that experience has been that they promise things that I didn't agree to, or know about. They also don't communicate to me certain details about the customer, or booking. I'd rather know everything from the customer myself, and also communicate to the customer what I want them to know.

Also, I'm a bit nit picky that things need to be said or done in a certain way, so it's probably best not to put my wife, or a partner, as a middleman. lol!

But I understand that some performers have a different approach, and good reasons for doing it their way.

What's your opinion on the topic?

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Mindpro
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On Mar 19, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
To address your post yes they do not have time to talk to every "person trying to sell them something". WHICH IS WHY COMING OFF LIKE A SALESMAN WITH SILLY SALES SLOGANS AND TECHNIQUES IS NOT GOOD! This is why it is silly to promote those tactics and techniques you so love. When you do those things you get put right in the category of just another sales call and are handled by someone else.

See you see things from the prospect of being the guy knocking. You can't get your head in the space of the guy answering the door. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.


This is where your positioning and strategies can play a key role. In much of what Tom has described it seems he is doing cold-calling. That IS THE SAME as telemarketers and sales hucksters, and yes, these are the people gatekeepers are typically in place to avoid. So you change your positioning and mentality. YES, THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

Now put that aside and consider what it is like for them to WANT to speak to you. To have to go through your gatekeeper. For them to know you and want you without there being a need for sales calls or cold-calling. This makes all the difference in the world.

It is truly a game-changer. Now right about now I can hear Tom or others saying "well that's fine if you are a celebrity or a well-known performer." However, you don't have to be. It can be obtained by any professional performer. I have proven this with coaching students and consulting clients over and over again for decades. This is how it is quite possible to move to the top of your market and beyond longtime established performers that have been doing this 20, 30, or 40+ years, as we demonstrated in another thread last year.

I couldn't agree with Danny more - you must stop thinking like a salesman and start thinking as a business with positioning and branding. It trumps these old guru sales techniques. Instead, focus on current techniques and strategies of positioning experts and educators.
TomBoleware
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Amen

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

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TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 18, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:

I'll stop (and go eat) with the only two real secrets to sales success:

Tom


Almost an entire day this time Tom. A new record!

Don't be fooled. OFTEN the secretary IS the final word on the subject. OFTEN THEY are the ones who take care of all the details and when they call you ARE talking to a decision-maker.



Nothing wrong with stopping to eat.

You right the secretary may indeed be the one to make the decision. But let me guess, she would say ME when you asked who makes the decision

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Tom you can't pretend that you agree with us now after you took a different position just the day before yesterday. That is now 3 positions you have on this subject.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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On Mar 19, 2021, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Hi Mindpro -

Yes, I speak with my customers myself. And pretty much all booking conversations happen over the phone. I also look forward to meeting my customers in-person at their event.

I've had a very limited experience with agents. Some of that experience has been that they promise things that I didn't agree to, or know about. They also don't communicate to me certain details about the customer, or booking. I'd rather know everything from the customer myself, and also communicate to the customer what I want them to know.

Also, I'm a bit nit picky that things need to be said or done in a certain way, so it's probably best not to put my wife, or a partner, as a middleman. lol!

But I understand that some performers have a different approach, and good reasons for doing it their way.

What's your opinion on the topic?

- Donald


Thanks for responding Donald.

I understand being nit-picky and wanting to speak to all prospects and customers yourself. For many years I was the exact same way. I do think this is how most serving local consumer markets should operate. It is the most direct and you don't have the expense of having to pay someone else. Plus, truth be told, no one is better qualified to speak about, inform, present or represent your business than you.

I often talk about how what I teach, train, and coach is often different from my own personal beliefs or implementations. This is such an exaample.

Now just to clarify, I am talking about my own performing business operations here, not my agencies. For some reason, many here think the things I discuss are from the agency perspective when most often they are not. Now on occasion, they may cross over and what I do personally may also be best for the agencies.

I think there are benefits and disadvantages to doing it each way. Initially, for many years I did all the phone work. I was a one-person operation and I was the best (and only) person to do this. It was here that I began to hone my sales presentation/performance and the very respectable closing and conversion ratios. It can offer the customer a peace of mind feeling they know you and are dealing with you directly.

However as I began to go from a local to regional, and then nationwide performer, I began to have to hire others to handle some of the operations, as between traveling and performing I wasn't always there to handle the phones on the first contact (I dislike getting or having to leave a message and to have to call or wait for a call back). While I soon realized while the two I hired did okay, they were not getting the responses I was used to, and generating the excitement and anticipation, so I quickly realized my greatest asset next to my performance was training these two to a much higher level to obtain the same results I did. It started happening by the 3rd month and was really rolling to my expected numbers by the sixth month. Soon our presentations were identical regardless of it was me or either of them. This has continued with most of my team members to this day.

I realized that the sales presentation was one of the top elements to my success. It came naturally to me as it developed over a period of time with trial and error, but since it was second nature to me, I never put much thought into my own structure and ultimate format.

For consumer market events like kids parties, kids/family events, company events, malls, local festivals, etc. it was fine doing it and representing myself. However, when I began using others to do this, some additional benefits were happening that I hadn't contemplated.

First, others could talk about me more and better than I could myself. They could state and say things (all true) that if I said myself to someone it would seem like I was boasting or bragging. They could say it with greater acceptance and authority than I could. Second, it created a nice barrier between them (the buyer) and me (the talent). The perception is you are a higher-end performer that has representatives doing this on our behalf much like a more credible, higher-end, top or celebrity performer. Although never intended, the buyers responded on a greater level of interest, detail, expectation, and excitement.

So of course this became the same in my agencies. No longer could someone pick up the phone and call me direct. It created a chain of command and professionalism that most others in my market didn't offer. It was my first experience with positioning and perception of the buyers on a perceived level separating me/us from the others.

When I arrived at a gig for setup they were excited and thrilled to meet me (far more than before, lol) and seemed to hang on my every word. They wanted photos with me, autographs, and a meet and greet with the event staff and committees. It was a noticeable change. When I eventually went on to have a setup crew, even more.

In professional markets, operating in such a way is almost expected as they are used to dealing with others, not the headlining talent.

In my coaching, consulting, and training I always prefer that all performers initially do this themselves for several reasons including it helps familiarize them with the presentation and sales process, it acclimates them to the questions, concerns, interests, and needs of the client, and it allows them to get good and polish their presentation so if you later decide to hire someone you are better qualified to train them.

Good topic and great thoughts!
TomBoleware
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Speaking of Donald, I personally think and have said for years that he is a good example and is a model magician. I think many ‘successful’ performers are like him when it comes to marketing their show. They still do what some would call ole fashion, they do mailings, make calls, and do the needed work themselves, but the most important thing is IT STILL WORKS. Those like Donald won't drop what works and go chasing every new idea that comes along. It’s not that they don’t have an open mind and will still welcome different opinions but they stick to what works. As boring as it may get at times the ‘work’ part remains the same. Oh sure you have to adapt to changing times such as learning to use a computer, emails, iPhone, etc but in business not a whole lot changes over time.

I also know that like me, Donald enjoys reading the positive thinking, sales, and self-improvement stuff; he just doesn’t preach it as much as I do. (Lol) But I’m sure he credits much of his non-magic learnings to playing a part in his success. As a successful mutual acquaintance once said, you need to work harder on yourself than you do on your job” I urge all reading this to look beyond the magic because sometimes when you’re in this little bubble called magic, you’re not privy to a lot of things that go on outside your circle of life. Stepping outside that circle at times causes you to think broader. This world is bigger than you.


Oh, by the way, I have been urging Donald for years to write a book for the magic community. Many in the magic business could learn from him.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
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Anyway, while we waiting on Nash to say, “What ya’ll talking about?” LOL

I will add that follow-ups are very important but even more important (and worth mentioning) is contacting that NEW lead for the first time, especially an online lead. The best time to respond is the SAME DAY you receive it. Just today I had an ebay customer ask about an item and after answering, her response was “thanks for your quick response.” I also often hear “thanks for the fast shipping." A quick response can help build trust from the get-go. In today’s fast-paced world people have gotten used to using the internet to find instant answers.

Also in response to this;

Quote:
On Mar 15, 2021, Nash wrote:

On the other hand, if the lead did not respond to either my email/voicemail after 5 follow ups, I move on and declare it as a lost gig.


I would suggest your last contact read something like this,

"I’ve tried multiple times to get in touch with you via phone and email, and I hate to keep bugging you. If or when you’d like more information about my show and what it can do for you, please let me know. For now, I’m closing your inquiry. You can still get in touch with me at (phone number) and (email)."

Best,


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Futureal
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Still running that daycare Tom?
TomBoleware
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On Mar 27, 2021, Futureal wrote:
Still running that daycare Tom?


No. I don't have it anymore. Hope you doing well.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Nash
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Looks like I might be the outlier in terms of follow-ups Smile Thanks for the input gang.
Mindpro, that's some very impressive numbers if 80% of your clients close on the first contact. Keep slaying it man. #Respect

Seems like most of y'all do a pretty great job selling to your prospects on first contacts. I see a common thread in getting the prospect on the phone too. Is that the primary way of communications between y'all and your leads? For me, 90% of the inquiries come from website's e-form. Guess I'm a bit of a millennial here (lol), I do prefer emails since I have time to craft the perfect response. The follow-up system I listed in my original post pertains to those who inquired for my services via e-forms.

As soon as the e-form comes in, I try to respond right away. If the lead indicates they have never seen my show before and they found me via random web searches, I try to call right away caz I DO BELIEVE strongly that having a genuine human connection with your prospect = a higher chance of closing. Alas -- the vast majority of the time, they never picked up the phone so I have to resort to emails. Hence the follow up system because you never knew if the prospect got your emails or not.

That's why I'm a bit unsure about the idea of not checking in with your prospect so you position yourself as "busy"? Because sometimes, emails can land in spam folder. I also believe there are ways to send follow-up emails to show the prospect you care and you remember their events, yet doesn't sound desperate. The best case scenario is when you have a conflicting inquiry and you notify them. If you are still open, just keep it simple and short and let them know you haven't forgotten about them. That's the way I do it. And I also think your prospects can tell if you are a busy professional or not from just looking at your website/Youtube/Social Media. Sending a quick email to follow up is a courtesy IMO, as long as you are not badgering them, I think it is a good business practice.

Cheers everyone! Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

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Dannydoyle
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You don't have to position yourself as busy if you are busy.

99% of my work for private clients (Which by design isn't much.) was them seeing me work.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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On Mar 28, 2021, Nash wrote:
Looks like I might be the outlier in terms of follow-ups Smile Thanks for the input gang.
Mindpro, that's some very impressive numbers if 80% of your clients close on the first contact. Keep slaying it man. #Respect

Seems like most of y'all do a pretty great job selling to your prospects on first contacts. I see a common thread in getting the prospect on the phone too. Is that the primary way of communications between y'all and your leads? For me, 90% of the inquiries come from website's e-form. Guess I'm a bit of a millennial here (lol), I do prefer emails since I have time to craft the perfect response. The follow-up system I listed in my original post pertains to those who inquired for my services via e-forms.

As soon as the e-form comes in, I try to respond right away. If the lead indicates they have never seen my show before and they found me via random web searches, I try to call right away caz I DO BELIEVE strongly that having a genuine human connection with your prospect = a higher chance of closing. Alas -- the vast majority of the time, they never picked up the phone so I have to resort to emails. Hence the follow up system because you never knew if the prospect got your emails or not.

That's why I'm a bit unsure about the idea of not checking in with your prospect so you position yourself as "busy"? Because sometimes, emails can land in spam folder. I also believe there are ways to send follow-up emails to show the prospect you care and you remember their events, yet doesn't sound desperate. The best case scenario is when you have a conflicting inquiry and you notify them. If you are still open, just keep it simple and short and let them know you haven't forgotten about them. That's the way I do it. And I also think your prospects can tell if you are a busy professional or not from just looking at your website/Youtube/Social Media. Sending a quick email to follow up is a courtesy IMO, as long as you are not badgering them, I think it is a good business practice.

Cheers everyone! Smile


I think I may have misunderstood your original post. You seem to be talking about situations where there is the possibility your response to the prospect did not get through (spam folder, etc.). In these cases your follow up system seems perfectly appropriate and necessary.

I think the phone versus email preference is a personality issue. Some thrive on the phone others do not. I can fake it on the phone but I'm with you in that I much prefer email. Texting and facebook messaging is becoming more popular too. But whatever form of communication the prospect chooses I totally agree with you that the faster you respond the more likely you are to land the gig. Being 'too busy' to respond does not fill your prospect with confidence.
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Dannydoyle
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I am not too busy to respond, only too busy to pester.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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