|
|
Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
Huw Collingbourne Loyal user Devon, UK 201 Posts |
I thought Selbit invented the sawing in half illusion back in the 1920s. According to Tarbell, (vol 7, page 336), some form of this illusion was being done as early as 1843 (he mentions a magician named Richiardi Jr....?)
Does anyone have more information? If it really was such an old illusion, why did Selbit's version become so famous? best wishes Huw |
|||||||||
blurr Regular user 143 Posts |
Here are the 2 sides to the story
PT Selbit introduced his "Sawing Thru A Woman" on January 17, 1921. (that wording is important...Sawing Thru) After he first showed his version, another magician, Horace Goldin, claimed he had invented the trick in 1909 first showing it to John Ringling, from the famous Circus. But Horace Goldin wasn't using it in his regular show. So, Selbit remarked, If you invented it back than, why have you never used it? So to justify his claim Goldin performed the illusion for the SAM in New York on June 3, 1921. It became clear that he indeed had invented this some time before, because the illusion was clearly different. Both in method and looks. In Selbits version, a lady was strapped to a table and completly covered with a box. Only the staps extended from beneath it. Selbit then sawed thru the box and table. Then lifted the box to show the lady still straped to it. He "Sawed Thru" the lady. In Goldin's version, the ladies head and feet extended out of the box, and no straps were involved. And after he sawed thru the box, the box was SEPERATED INTO 2 PIECES! The process was reversed and the lady restored. So, in essence, Selbit invented the "Sawing Thru", and Goldin invented the "Sawing In Two". But the question still remains, as to why Goldin never used the illusion in his show, if it is such a strong piece? Because he made the fatal mistake of using a Male asst. for the sawing. And it just didn't play well. So he never used it. I hope that clears things up for you. As for Richiardi Jr., his version used a woman who was cut up (not in 2 but just gashed open!) by a whirring buzz saw, and NO BOX! As the saw cut through her, blood and guts spewed forth onto the table and floor. The audience was then allowed to come onstage and see the mess up close. The audience took their seats and the lady was pushed offstage, and never restored! Leaving some to wonder, Was that a trick? or did he just really kill her?! Blurr
"Someday men will look back and say I was the start of the 20th century."
---Jack the Ripper |
|||||||||
Huw Collingbourne Loyal user Devon, UK 201 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-07-30 08:56, blurr wrote: Interesting. The Richardi version sounds remarkably 'modern' (similar to the Simon Drake version). I admit I know nothing at all about Richiardi. Did he have any other similarly gory illusions? I'm surprised he 'got away' with an effect like that at the time... (sounds like my kinda magician! ) best wishes Huw |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
A few other things to note here...
The Buzz Saw was another of Goldin's "off-spring" though it was Harry Blackstone, Sr. that made it most famous (along with Sorcar of India). It was the Sorcar variation to this that Richiardi featured in his shows during the 1960s and well into the early 80s (and was featured on a magic special in the mid-70s, shot @ Madison Square Garden, hosted by Vincent Price... in other words, the dates noted in the original post pertaining to Richiardi are about 100 years off... ) Howard Thurston made a slight variant to the Goldin idea by adding the second table onto which the upper/torso section of the divided cabinet was placed, allowing the girl to see her toes (BTW... the Thurston cabinets (there were two)NEVER USED TWO GIRLS) Other Variations to the Sawing seem to run into the dozens, if not hundreds... Vertical Cabinets (Deleland's Divided Lady - Abbott's); Missing Mid-Drift (Wakeling (?)); The Bar (?); Jig Saw Sawing (U.F.Grant); and the controversial Thin Model Sawing (as I understand the tale it was Tijani, Carl Owen, John Daniel, Jim Sommers & Kirk Kirkham that did all the R&D on this. Daniel was the first to perform it in the mid/late 60s. Within a year Kirkham, Mark Wilson & Jim Sommers were all three performing versions of this effect. John Daniel however, was the first to do the double "comedy" routine.) I know I've left out some other versions, including the Splitting A Girl routine of the early Copperfield years, but I think I covered the primaries.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
blurr Regular user 143 Posts |
Yes Richiardi Jr. did another gory illusion. He cut off someones head! A lady places her head on a block of wood. No cover, screens or switches. She just lays her head on a block of wood as she kneels on the floor. Richiardi Jr. has a hand held blade. A square of metal with a pair of handles at the top. He dramitcally walks over to her and pushes the blade down on her kneck! Her head rolls off the wood block and her body slumps over lifeless! Not once is her head ever covered. It is the most realistic decapitation illusion you will ever see. That is, if it is an illusion.....
Blurr
"Someday men will look back and say I was the start of the 20th century."
---Jack the Ripper |
|||||||||
David Goldrake Loyal user Las Vegas 226 Posts |
Dear Huw,
For an in depth history of the Sawing ilusion I would suggest you get Jim Steinmeyer's wonderful book "Art and Artifice". Best regards, D |
|||||||||
Huw Collingbourne Loyal user Devon, UK 201 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-07-30 12:40, David Goldrake wrote: Oh no! I wish people wouldn't keep recommending books! The trouble is, I keep on buying them! I have a terrible weakness for books (magic books especially) and I don't need too much tempting to add more to my collection... I'll add the Steinmeyer book to my 'must buy' list... best wishes Huw |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-07-30 12:37, blurr wrote: I think (as I'm understanding your description) that you are mixing two different pieces... Christian's & the Richiardi Head Choppers... Richiardi used a headsman's axe not a guillotine type (which is what Christian used)... both are excellent pieces!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
blurr Regular user 143 Posts |
On the video I have of the performance, It is a hand held blade. Not and axe. The blade is square with handles at the top. Maybe he used 2 different styles in his performing career. The video is an old clip. So maybe he changed to an axe later in life for a more dramatic chopping effect.
Blurr
"Someday men will look back and say I was the start of the 20th century."
---Jack the Ripper |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
If you have the Vincent Price/MSG Special he did in the late 70s adn that's what you're seeing I may be very much off... I know he did some earlier Tv in the US, UK & Canada in the 50s and 60s and it's possible you are seeing an earlier incarnation of said bit.
The one thing I know for fact, is that I lost my cookies the first time I saw that headsman chop the guys head off There only been one other illusion to ever take me that far off guard adn that was the first time I saw a tape of Kaylin doing the Impalment in the early 80s (before everyone had one)... for a gore freak like me, this kind of stuff is very cool!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
blurr Regular user 143 Posts |
Yes Richiardi was into making it look real!
I would venture to say, that noone is going to rip off his act any time soon. Blurr
"Someday men will look back and say I was the start of the 20th century."
---Jack the Ripper |
|||||||||
x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
The only version of the Richiardi Head Chop,that I have seen, is the same that Blurr posted, the womans head is on an old "stump" he stradles her head and comes straight down with the blade. I think the footage (1970's?) was on either a TLC special hosted by Harry Anderson or a Sci-Fi special that was a several parter.
Darmoe, wasn't gore the basis of 90% of Richiardi's show? I still want to see the burned at the stake that freaked your poor old mum out.
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
|
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Shawn
The Richiardi special I was referring to was done in the 70s @ Madison Square Gardens and is hosted by Vincent Price. My Cremation... well, it depends on which one... all of them are gross (you actually smell burnt human flesh)... some are more graphic than others. In this particular instance however, it was an old Abbott cabinet such as most in the world are used to seeing... well, we magic types at least. Now, if you know anyone interested in a very visual, very impossible immulation, let me know. A set/prop builder friend of mine (known for his work on Gremlins, Goonies, and the Indiana Jones flicks) helped me come up with a version that has a tempered glass front... you see the fire roll around the girl's body... there's no place to go! Yep! I'm a sick puppy
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
paulapaul Regular user Nevada 173 Posts |
[quote]On 2002-09-17 03:37, x-treem wrote:
wasn't gore the basis of 90% of Richiardi's show? I don't know the percentage, but the rest of what he did was as intriguing as the gore. His levetation comes to mind. You could SEE the "power" coming from his fingertips; his hands were very articulate, and his entire body and thoughts were directed to the power he was using to float the woman. Richiardi's Rice Bowls number is fantastic! He made the most of attention to the prop, or the effect, or wherever he wanted your attention. Then, once he was finished with a prop, he would toss it over his shoulder with flair. He smiled at the appropriate times, and (although I am not a big fan of mixing dance with magic) his Flamenco styling and occasional dance step NEVER strayed from the magic effect. I also found the look of his assistants (his daughter and son both worked the show) very interesting as well. Dark, but in a subtle way. The whole picture that Richardi painted was very powerful, very stimulating. Paula |
|||||||||
Daktari Regular user USA 154 Posts |
In speaking of the sawing effect, does Steinmeyer's book on Alan Wakeling include buildable plans for the Wakeling Sawing? Also would you recommend this book based on it's historical content?
Thanks! |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Daktari
If Jim's name is on a book (or Alan's or Rands...see the trend here?) BUY IT! It's worth the price and then some and more than likely, researched at an exceptional level of depth. To add to what Paula pointed on on Richardi... NO he was not a Macabre Magic only kind of performer... he was merely one of the LAST LIVING MASTERS MAGICIANS of his era. The man was awesome and could take any stock illusion (like a Temple of Benares) and turn it into a miracle! He was a very humble man with an amazing mind. He understood the art of subtlety within his magic. When he did the Broom Suspension he would riffle the bristols freely to probe NOTHING available to support her... His handling of the DeKolta Chair was possibly the most impossible handling ever! If you want to learn how to do magic as in MAGICK... get as much video and film footage on this man as you can find and study it. Same goes with Kalanag... especially if you have those short chubby fingers and don't think you can do manipulation... Kalanag will prove you so wrong! (but then, so will Darwin)
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Thank you for all of the insight Darmoe, your posts have always been an asset to read. Who knows one day in the distant future someone will ask for information on a performer named Darmoe and I can say sure I knew him online.
I have, in the past, always been able to find info on Kalanag but I'll be dern if I can find anything beyond the short piece of footage I mentioned when it comes to Richardi, I knew from somewhere that his daughter and son were part of his show. Again thanks. From viewing your website and your burnt flesh remark a few posts up, I can tell you come from a superior grade of twisted mind then what I rely on. Shawn
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
|
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
To say that I'm "Twisted" is, in some people's mind, a gross understatement.
As I've been hinting at of late, that old Macabre & Goth image of mine is on the wane... we're even getting rid of the black clothes, beard, bushy hair, etc and heading into an era of pure corn I can't say a lot just yet, but after the first of the year the "cat" will be "out of the bag"
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
LeeAlex2002 Inner circle 1007 Posts |
In association with the "sawing in Half", or in fact any type of illusion, no one ever mentions the Turkish magician Zati Sungar who everyone raves about here. He performed abroad a lot, especially in S. America, but maybe under a different name?
Is this true or just the Turks with a chip on their shoulder?? |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-19 02:28, LeeAlex2002 wrote: Wow! I wish Kirkham were still alive... Memory serves me, he knew this man fairly well (via Tijani). I know the name and I do believe their is a pix of him in his latter years with Chuck, Tijani, and if I'm thinking of the right photo Milborne Christopher was also present. Haven't heard that name in years but according to Chuck, he was exceptional! Super slick with slight of hand.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Who invented the "sawing in half" illusion? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |