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raphaeljanks New user 6 Posts |
Hi all. I have been doing the classic pass for a while now... a few years... but I have become very critical of the flashing of late and am looking for advice on the best resource I can purchase to assist with the classic pass. I prefer a video tutorial in comparison to books for the pass. Maybe I need to change my technique or angle, I am not sure. Any advice would really be appreciated.
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mightytimbo New user Franklin Park, NJ 49 Posts |
I've been working on mine for a bit. I got a lot of benefit out of Alex Pandrea's. (Where I learned the original Moves) and Jay Sankeys) where I learned more refining details.
That said, I am still working hard to refine my own pass, but these guys both have pretty burnable passes, so they are worth checking out. |
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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts |
If someone's pass is "burnable" doesn't that mean it can be seen by a spectator burning the conjurer's hands? I don't understand how the word burnable can be used to mean something like "burn-proof" or invisible. My understanding is that an invisible pass cannot be seen even with the spectator burning the artist's hands, therefore a good pass should NOT be burnable. Where have I gone wrong?
In addition, I would recommend tutorials by either Jason England and/or Jonathan Kamm (he call it a pro-torial).
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
I would also say Jason England's is top notch. When I was focusing on the pass I checked out many resources, and got the most value out of his video and Expert at the Card Table, personally.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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raphaeljanks New user 6 Posts |
Thanks all. Has anybody here purchased Akira Fujii's dvd on the classic pass? If so... do you recommend it. I see many people recommending Pandrea's tutorial. Thanks again.
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
Not to add to the confusion but check out Jonathan Kamm tutorial on the Pass.
He has many videos on Youtube. He sells the Pass tutorial on his website.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Carlo Loyal user San Francisco, California 244 Posts |
Steven Youell's, if you can find it somewhere. Not the classic pass, but a variation using ideas from various sources.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 16, 2021, Carlo wrote: Just for reference it is called the "Mongrel Pass". And it is very good.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 12, 2021, TeddyBoy wrote: Maybe something is getting lost in the translation, but "burnable" has come to be a term which describes a move that can be studied closely and NOT seen. So in reference to the pass, it would mean a spectator can look directly at the cards during the move and not detect that the packets have transposed. It does NOT mean that they will not detect any action necessarily. If you are using a riffle cover, they will of course see the riffle, but they won't see the exchange. If doing a dribble pass, they won't notice the two halves changing places. The only motion they are aware of is the dribble. Hope that helps.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts |
Thanks for clearing this up. I know you are correct...but it still don't make no sense to me. LOL
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
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Gennovense Regular user 113 Posts |
Akira Fujii! I don't like the move in general but his Classic Pass is the one I like the most,...his no cover pass is the real deal.
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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
It's pretty straightforward: get multiple mirrors, do the pass, and if there's any problem, fix it!
There isn't much else to do... The move will be adapted to your hands, and with practice, will get better and covert. P! |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
That really only works if one is able to recognize what may or may not be a problem. Otherwise all that will do is cement the incorrect movements into muscle memory which takes significantly more effort to 'correct' than just learning it properly the first time.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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obrienmagic Special user 752 Posts |
I teach a variation on the classic pass that you may find helpful. It isn’t in the passes technique per say. More like creating motivation amd misdirection around the pass. It is the “slow motion dribble pass” on YouTube if you are interested. Otherwise I think people have listed some excellent sources to find some incredible tutorials on how to execute the pass in general.
Visit my online store at http://www.obrienmagic.com/magic-shop
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magicnorm Special user 509 Posts |
Jonathan Kamm, cannot go wrong.
NM |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 2, 2021, magicnorm wrote: Agreed, ain't nobody handling the pass any better than Jonathan Kamm. One heckuva working pro, closeup and card man!
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 28, 2021, WitchDocChris wrote: I mean, problems are pretty obvious: flashes, weird hand motions during the move, weird grip of the packets before the move, visible breaks. Fix those, and pretty much no one you meet will have seen a better pass (even though it could be improved more!) P! |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 16, 2021, Ado wrote: I respectfully disagree. The physical aspects of a move are only a small portion of what makes it deceptive. Once the physical portions are 'mastered' there's the matter of getting it to be psychologically deceptive, which is the far greater challenge and is definitely harder to pin down when one is practicing on their own in a room with a mirror or camera. Unless, of course, the intention is solely to execute the move to the admiration of other sleight of hand practitioners.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
Quote:
WitchDocChris wrote: OP is having problems flashing. If he's not gonna work on technique with a critical eye, might as well do the pass when turning his back to the audience, in a dark room, with loud music speaking. Then, nobody will see the move... I don't know of anyone teaching the "psychology of the pass", with the exception, perhaps, of those who suggest the "cockroach pass". Nevertheless, there's tremendous value in learning to cut the deck invisibly. But that's not a (classic) pass, that's a different technique. (Now, the funny part is that all magicians I know who've been teaching the pass since the VHS age are unable to do a half-assed classic pass when performing... I still have nightmares from the horrors I've seen at conventions when they performed and used it to control a card...) P! |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Whenever discussions of "the pass" come up you can always count on things becoming divisive and sometimes contentious. Never fails. One camp says it can't be done invisibly, one camp says it can, and yet another camp says it doesn't matter because you should use misdirection anyway. And on it goes. By the way, I say "the pass" because of course there are many variants.
People also nominate their champions, those that they believe are the best, or at least a model for the rest. Then someone chimes in with testimony of witnessing said performer and reports that they must have caught the performer on a bad day because their pass was quite detectable. I've purchased a few "pass videos" and in none of them was there what I would call an invisible pass. There were good passes. Passes that would pass muster certainly. Invisible? No. Maybe to a layperson. The camp I fall in is the camp which says all of the other camps are wrong and all of the other camps are right. Some passes can be done invisibly by talented performers. At least most of the time. And for those times when things aren't perfect, well, that's what misdirection is for. Inviting people to look at the cards as you make the move is not the best approach. If the effect demands it, like Swain's 'Passing Along the Vanishing Aces", then of course, you do draw attention to the pack. And you better have a better-than-average pass! For color changes, same. For visible ambitious card, same. But for all other purposes, use some misdirection! And don't go by videos of passes on youtube. Quite a few magicians can do a presentable pass if the camera is in just the right place, at the proper angle. Oh, and if given a number of "takes" in order to select the best one to upload. In the end, I think what magicians should cultivate is a "functionally invisible pass", one that can be used in the average performing environment and not attract attention. The move should fit the description of something that isn't suspected much less seen. That, I think, should be the goal.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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