No, but Jamy Ian Swiss refers to himself as an "honest liar." Think about it.

“There are some things that’s good to believe: People is basically good. Courage and honor are more important than money and power. Good always wins at the end, and, there is a 'one and only' great love that give us the power to do anything”.

Robert Duval said that in a movie called Second Hand Lions. Actually, it wasn’t him. The character he was playing in the movie said that.

My whole life is pretty much a lie.

Prove it

Bill, thank you for posting this. Gives me a new hook to hang some thoughts on. Now if only I had a PUNX book to read...

~ Dan Strange

The government would consider this concept as a plausible deniabilty. Never a lie... why that would be preposterous!

I have done some reading on PUNX (Ludwig Hanemann) on the net and found that his elaborations (I would be frank and say lies wrapped in tales), are what he is about, and would feel that he would be offended by the concept of lies. For him a lie and a tale are two separate things. I would think he felt that a 'LIE' is a malicious act, where as a 'TALE' is a positive or goodly act, so to label him a liar would be calling him a bad person in his eyes.

I never out-and-out lie when I perform; I engage in what Norm Bigelow calls 'verbal deception.' Verbal deception is telling the truth in such a way as to skew the facts for the listener.

Example: "I do not resort to cheap trickery!"

Implied: "I don't use tricks."

Actual translation: "I use tricks, but they are quite expensive."


Steve

Lying is bad, verbal deception is good, acting isn't lying, storytelling is entertainment...

Gentlemen, we've embarked on another exploration of semantics. A crusade for the true meaning of the word "meaning."

We all know what we do. The particular word or words that we choose to define it would seem less important to me than the basic reality of it.

The last time I checked, I'm trying to entertain, amaze, amuse, and leave people wanting more. If that involves stating facts that may or may not have basis in fact... so be it.

Now I have to go sleep with my wife... Morgan Fairchild, yea, that's it, Morgan Fairchild...

Best... you pack of liars.

Mike

So there you have it.

Steve

I haven't visited this thread in a while, but I would like to point out something rather funny that I heard about when I was in college. Someone else may know the name of the illusionist in question. Apparently, the fellow was so pathologically honest that he could not stretch the truth even a little during a performance.

One evening, when performing one of the versions of the "Sawing," the girl he used to simulate the feet was ill, so in desperation, he used one of the male cast members in her place. So, he put his regular assistant in the box, sawed away and separated the parts. He then gestured as he said, "And there you are, ladies and gentlemen. There is her head... and there are his feet."

I start my show by declaring myself a Prestidigitor, a Mountebank, and a Charlatan (also a guy who went to university for a really long time...).

Does that make me a liar if I'm telling people up front that I will be deceiving them? Or does that set the stage for the deceptions, allowing the audience to let themselves be fooled into following the story I'm telling through the performance? (In this case, the story really *is* about a magician, one who's not in total control of his environment, or wants the audience to *think* that.)

The nature of theater is such that an actor can pick up a stick and claim it's a sword, but if a magician wants the audience to believe something is a sword, it had better look like a sword (paraphrasing Teller), but they *know* that what we do is, in some way, partially concealed.

Does it make us liars if we let people know ahead of time that we *are* not exposing all?

Tobias!
ramble ramble ramble

Calling yourself a charlatan up front is a good call. That way, if someone believes what you pitch, they have only themselves to blame.

That was pretty much P.T. Barnum's approach, and he was a lovable original.

Steve

The other advantage, I have found, is that it "lets them in" on the scam... It's really common at RenFaires to get the crowd you have right at the beginning of a show to cheer really loud to attract the attention of even *more* people (and thus, more potential donors when you pass the hat), so by setting the tone by saying I'm a professional liar (or Charlatan), I can then get them to cheer really loud... "In short, it's a really big scam! Are you all up for that?"

They usually are. "A larcenous crowd... an audience after my own heart!" Again, they're *in on the scam*, and that makes it much easier for them to appreciate the misdirections I'll take 'em down later in the show.

I think I would personally feel a twinge of guilt telling someone, "This jet airplane is parked on a solid slab of immovable concrete," if it wasn't true. The reason is that here I am setting up the premise, and it feels a little outside of the frame of the illusion proper. If I just implied that it was a real runway, I would feel much better, sleep much better at night.

In the same way, if someone asked me point-blank, "Are those trick cards?" [before the switch], I would feel a twinge of guilt saying directly, "No, of course not," and would feel better saying something indirect such as "Didn't you just shuffle these cards?". After the switch back, no problem.

Do I need to fry my conscience a little more in order to proceed in magic?

alan

It would seem to me the the word LIAR and the associated feelings it provokes are all in the negative.

Please drop any negative associations about the wor "Liar" on this thread. On this thread the word "Liar" is used to describe creative bending of reality into a form required by the liar.

The dictionary tells us...
lie. Statement the speaker knows to be untrue.

The dictionary did not say...
lie. An evil and malicious deception, designed to maim, kill and generally inflict harm. Used by people that want to be nasty to others and make as much discord as they can.

The second description seems to be the major interpretation that you all are making. WHY?
In my very first post I set out the terms of the thread, and here 34 posts later I am still having to explain this thread.

Here is my first post for reference.

Particulary when performing for friends, but also for others, I have sometimes felt a twinge of guilt when cornered into making "a statement [I] know to be untrue" when it is outside of the frame of the illusion or effect.

For example, I would have no problem saying, "Ever since my bill went through the Chinese X-ray machine I could pass things right through it. Could I borrow your pen, sir, and ma'am could I use one of your cigarettes?" I think that's the kind of thing this thread is about. But there's a grey area of stuff that's outside the frame of the performance--or is it?
At least I know I would feel a little bad telling a friend directly, "I never use marked cards."

I don't mind writing fiction or performing magic; however, to tell someone the fiction is a true story would feel unethical to me...

I do apologize if I got off topic when I wrote about my feelings in the "grey area"...

alan

Sorry Alan, My rant was in no way about your post. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

Friday night I used a technique to emulate an off duty police officer (for a good reason).
We had a drunk get onto the night bus and give the driver some trouble. would not pay and would not leave the bus.
I went to have a word with the drunk and used the mannerisms and conversation of a police officer. Without saying I was an off duty officer I implied it. and asked the drunk to step off the bus or I would have to contact an on duty officer.
The threat of police action was enough to persuade the drunk to calm down and leave the bus.
It turns out he wanted another bus altogether but was so drunk he got on ours and his pass was out of date.
The driver said thank you officer. I laughed and said no problem mate.

Throughout the whole incident I never prompted verbal or visual connections with police directly. I just emulated the attitude and decisiveness of an officer and let the other people decide what I was.
I don't feel bad about it. I am happy that I helped the driver and drunk and got to get home in one piece. I done good by doing good.

A quotation from Teller in the latest issue of Genii.

"I want to be known as a liar and loved for my lies."

:)

Alleycat,

I would also avoid saying that the plane was parked on a solid slab of concrete if it was not.

Using verbal deception, I would say,
"Imagine...a five ton aircraft parked on a solid, concrete platform!"

I never said that was what they were looking at. I simply asked them to IMAGINE such a thing.

Steve