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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Doing Gigs for exposure?!?!?! (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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funsway
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'you don't want a real audience watching while you're blocking out something new, do you?"

Not sure what a "real audience" is, but I don't (and haven't ever) used any group while "blocking out" a new effect or routine.
A practice buddy or mentor, yes - but usually only at the dress rehearsal (beyond blocking out)

I do not perform for anyone as a magician unless I have reasonable mastered the effect or routine.
Yes, I will take note of reactions and "gestalt influence" factors in changing verbal script and timing,
but only from an audience of the type I intend to perform for. No casual looki-loos or or accidental tourists for me.

You mention "realistic reaction." I don't see anything of value in the feedback you enjoy. If it works for you, fine. I don't see anything to recommend it.

You seem to suggest that I or anyone uses a magic club to try things out. Never have. I present practiced and complete effects and routines.
Some people did show a "here is something I am working on" trick, and I provide such "real" advice as I could. Why wouldn't my reaction be "realistic."
or at least as good a as that of a janitor. I am confused. Are you saying an experienced magician can't provide useful advice?

I guess that my "different world" is that I trust my mental role play of an effect over what a casual stranger might offer.
Then I use a real audience to refine my presentation - not to help me "work out stuff."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
George Ledo
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Ah, magic clubs...

Many years ago, when I was starting out, a local pro I met at the magic club became my mentor. We talked a lot about performance and such, and one time we came up with something we thought would help everyone at the club.

The idea was that if anyone wanted feedback on a work in progress, they would say so ahead of time and then pass out evaluation forms to anyone who wanted to provide that feedback. Totally voluntary on both sides, and we put a lot of thought (and arguments) into those forms. We were the first two guinea pigs.

The idea fizzled. No interest at all. I can tell you what some of the reasons we heard were, but I think you can guess pretty accurately.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
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Dannydoyle
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I own a restaurant. We have off hours and no way would I let this happen. Same with anyone who owns clubs I know. Maybe 40 years ago it was a thing but with liability being what it is I’m going to doubt this would happen much.

Also so few people would wander by. Also if you don’t have a rehearsal space that is not a good start.

I need to ask is this something you have done yourself or is it just something you read others have done?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Danny, good luck with the restaurant. As I recall you started out at Schulien's restaurant in Chicago, where Ed Marlo and the boys hung out in the back room, as I understand it from his Cardician film.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2021, tommy wrote:
Danny, good luck with the restaurant. As I recall you started out at Schulien's restaurant in Chicago, where Ed Marlo and the boys hung out in the back room, as I understand it from his Cardician film.

They never hung out in the back room ever. Came in for dinner. But didn’t regularly hang out in the back room.

Schulien’s was propagated with workers. Marlo as great as he was, as visionary as he was and as much as he undeniably contributed to magic simply was not a worker. The large percentage of his students were not workers. With some glaring obvious exceptions like Malone this is true. All of them tremendously talented but not really workers.

Incidentally the room they are filming in isn’t actually the back room at Schulien’s. It was part of the restaurant that was always open. There was a room further back that was a banquet room that was actually the “back room”.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Thank you kindly.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
George Ledo
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Sorry, Danny, but please define workers for me. Thx,
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net

Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here"
Dannydoyle
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I’m sorry George yes that does need definition.

When you are being paid to do magic for the public we thought of you as a “worker”. To be truthful even if it was part time a guy was a “worker”. It was a little imprecise, but effective.

Marlo was not really this. Most of his students were not this. (This being a worker.)

Magic is a strange deal in my eyes, even more since the advent of the internet. Every opinion, no matter how tested or validated seems of equal value. People write books after single digit years of being a hobby guy! Guys think they are entitled to secrets, free tickets and to be treated as equals just because they think they are part of the “brotherhood”. I mean they want to give advice after Broadway shows to performers! It is the equivalent of Kareoke singers showing up at a Who concert wanting tickets and going over the set list with Roger Daltry and giving him pointers on how to sing. It doesn’t happen in many other art forms and it happens to a RIDICULOUS level in magic.

Sorry to ramble but these things are all tied in if you ask me. We worry so much about the feelings of others that this is where we end up. I don’t think it is very helpful.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I agree. For some reason the levels of performers in magic is disregarded or even redefinrf to their own preference as opposed to the way of is with other types of live entertainment.
George Ledo
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Thanks, Danny.

Yup, it's a "phenomenom" of the internet age when anyone can buy a cheap cell phone tripod, light, and mike, and suddenly become a YouTube "star" or "influencer." Write a book after a couple of years of learning magic from YouTube or buying packet tricks? Sure, it's easy with online publishing and print-on-demand booksellers. Used to be you had to go to a real publisher to get you book out. Now anyone can write a novel or whatever and see it in print in a week or two. Make a film? Ha! Movie cameras and film used to be expensive. Now anyone can make a film with a cell phone or "prosumer" camera. No film = no costs for developing. Even editing software is available, free, online.

But it's just history repeating itself. Yesrs ago, when desktop publishing and graphics software first came out, anyone could become a "graphic artist" overnight.

So, as a result of the above, and more, we are inundated with trash.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net

Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here"
funsway
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Not disagreeing with anyone above, but a little story ..

Years ago a middle aged man approached our local magic club. For twenty years he had supported himself performing magic at carnivals, flee markets, etc. (a worker).
Now was giving up that nomad life, buying a home and starting a family. He wanted to continue his love of magic as an amateur. He was not admitted.

The club had a requirement that an applicant had to demonstrate proficiency with three different effects. He knew only one - Wooly Worms.
He was proably the best in the world at Wooly Worms in every setting, condition and audience mix - thousand sof performances and made a living.

He asked for help and I volunteered to teach him several effects for his audition. He managed those without enthusiasm and got in. He had to join IMB too.

Later, some of us learned about "reading an audience " and "milking an opportunity." I never learned much from the other professionals in the club except drinking stories.

None of them offered to help the guy.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Dannydoyle
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I have never been a member of a magic club. Magic is simply not my hobby. I have never done magic for any other reason then as a business.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
George Ledo
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When I joined the local IBM ring as a 16-year-old junior member, my intention was to learn all I could on my way to becoming a pro later. And I did learn a heckuva lot from several of the pros, both what to do and what not to do. A few years later, a bunch of new (amateur) guys decided they were cool because they did close-up instead of stand-up and formed a clique. From that point on, the ring wasn't all that much fun anymore: it developed a silly, grammar-school "us and them" mentality.

That's where my dislike of close-up started, and it's there to this day.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net

Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here"
Dannydoyle
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I have a general dislike of clubs. Any clubs that is not just magic clubs.

I have friends who are professionals and some are amateur and some hobby guys. I don’t need to pay dues and listen to quite often what is it important tripe to have fun and learn magic. No times, no worry about anything but making a phone call and meeting.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Fedora
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I don't get the point of "exposure" shows, if I'm performing
might as well get money for it.

is it because it's free and someone might see and hire you?
but you can perform anywhere for free, I don't see why
you would do it for someone who would pay otherwise.

Note, when I say "you" I'm not referring to anyone specifically.
tommy
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I don’t get it: I thought it was do with getting traffic on the internet, getting subscribers, getting paid by advertisers by getting well kmown, building a fan base or something.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2021, Fedora wrote:
I don't get the point of "exposure" shows, if I'm performing
might as well get money for it.

is it because it's free and someone might see and hire you?
but you can perform anywhere for free, I don't see why
you would do it for someone who would pay otherwise.

Note, when I say "you" I'm not referring to anyone specifically.


As Danny mentioned previously magicians are notorious for being bad to even terrible business operators, and then you add the "thinking-they-know-it-all" aspects of many magicians leads to this type of thinking.

Fundraising companies or charities that offer this approach are really laypeople trying to coordinate such events. They often don't understand the world of entertainment other than in their own very limited perspective of "we have to get entertainment for our event." They see it as they see other things they need - they pick up the phone (today also email) and ask for free donations. That's what they are trained to do and that is what they do. They think by approaching entertainers and using the exposure premise it would be appealing to many entertainers such high-level CEOs, presidents, vice presidents, and board members, as well as other "VIPs" will be attending the event and are all prospects to see you, love what you do, and hire you for their company or personal events. This is their premise. It was a premise that worked out okay for fundraisers and charities in the 1940, - 70s. Usually, only newer or beginner performers would accept these arrangements.

Back in the day, these events were "Galas" or "Balls" and a big deal. A who's who of the town or community would be there, the media would offer full coverage of the event for the "Society" or "Communities" pages if not the front page of the newspaper. Often area t.v. news would even cover it.

These days it is not the same. These events are not community Galas, and their significance and impact this not the same. Also, the outdated approach and format is nowhere near as successful as it once was.

In today's entertainment marketplace it needs to be seen, understood, and approached with a fresh perspective and position. For both the entertainers as well as the fundraising/charities involved. There can be many benefits and opportunities to the performer when done properly WITHOUT having to rely on POSSIBLE bookings from high-level attendees. But it takes you as the entertainer knowing and understanding this and then educating the fundraising representative(s) to this perspective and approach. This should always be seen as a business transaction. A booking like any other booking, just with different terms.

I have posted before on this here
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......start=20

You don't have to read the whole thread as it has much misinformation within it, but my first post on this page is what I am referencing.

Also, high-level VIP's rarely will just see you and want to book you. They must be presented with the opportunity or option. You must make this happen. It is a networking, presentational selling, and showcasing opportunity. Once you, the performer, understand this and what it entails, you have control of this opportunity throughout the event.

This along with the many things mentioned in the post I linked to can create the ideal win-win situation with some guarantees, and not just be left up to chance.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2021, tommy wrote:
I don’t get it: I thought it was do with getting traffic on the internet, getting subscribers, getting paid by advertisers by getting well kmown, building a fan base or something.


Likes and followers on the internet do not translate to business, bookings, and dollars and cents. Also, followers and a fanbase are very different as more and more that rely on the online world are finding out. Plus, remember many more successful magicians were around long before the internet.
Mindpro
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Also, I agree with George and Danny that magic clubs today are also not what they once were. There is so much division and false encouragement.

Participation praise and awards have replaced true learning education, progress, and support. Where we used to revel in the time and even the briefest attention, thought, and assistance from longtime, established pros, today this division often makes it young against the "old" and longtime pros are seen as old and outdated without any resemblance of professional respect. Plus, they are not on youtube so how good and knowledgeable can they really be?
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