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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Getting into motivational/expert speaking (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

ezystreamlive
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Gotta be honest- I have not the faintest idea how to get into the market-(which is why I am asking here) I see plenty of magicians websites and they also tack on motivational/expert talks

having gone through their website I realise - why are they offering it?- they are no more an expert than myself. They don't have a claim to fame on that particular topic.

I have never really seen any motivational presentations to see exactly what they are saying (just their promo videos and write ups)

So anyones thoughts on the motivational/ speaker market and getting started in that market. Or are people adding it to their website as a fake so that when you look over the website you think- wow this person does shows, and talks they are a serious business person.

I am not going to be rude enough to post links to magicians and ask how the heck does this person get any work but I think those who are in the market know the fakers from the real ones and I would love to read some thoughts from those who actually do it
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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I think that was a FANTASTIC job of summing up the situation as it stands.

Prepare for the local guru types to now shoot their arrows at you, while at the same time sort of prove your point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Inner circle
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I agree that many magicians do claim to be motivational speakers too. And some could probably be good at speaking, but I would think that most never book any speaking gigs from their magic website. The two markets don’t go hand in hand like many think they would. Sort of like the plumber advertising that he can cut your hair too. The ‘perception’ becomes mixed and distorted.

A speaker is not hired for what they do, a speaker is hired for what they have already done. They usually have had a successful background in business or have experienced some interesting event that others never have. A good speaker has a good story to tell. They deliver more than just entertainment.

The potential buyer's 'perception' is, a magician ‘fools’ the audience, but a speaker ‘moves’ the audience. This perceived perception must be cleared up to have any real success at speaking.

Tom
Kind People Are The Best Kind Of People

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On May 24, 2021, ezystreamlive wrote:
I see plenty of magicians websites and they also tack on motivational/expert talks

having gone through their website I realise - why are they offering it?- they are no more an expert than myself.

...are people adding it to their website as a fake so that when you look over the website you think- wow this person does shows, and talks they are a serious business person.

I am not going to be rude enough to post links to magicians and ask how the heck does this person get any work but I think those who are in the market know the fakers from the real ones and I would love to read some thoughts from those who actually do it


Absolutely! You are correct on every count. I have worked with, represented, coached, consulted, and mentored all types of entertainers now for 35 years, and nowhere have I come across anything more misperceived, misunderstood, deceptive, and deceitful than magicians. It took me a long time to flush this all out, but here is my professional analysis and findings.

Magicians deal in deception, fakery, tricks, and illusion which often leads to delusion. Since there is no barrier to become a magician (even proclaiming to be a magician has no barrier, as anyone can buy a $1.00 magic trick and claim to be a "magician"), no formal education or training required, and nothing (governing body) to hold them to a standard, yet alone professionalism, it is all self-proclaimed. "I am a magician", "I operate a performance business", and of course just Google magician's websites to see proclamations such as "World's Greatest", "(State's) Top Magician", or "Award-Winning..." among others. Yet none can prove or back such claims. They honestly think people will believe this.

Another delusion is because they've been doing this "a long time" they believe they are skilled, proficient, and a professional. Worse yet they believe this makes them qualified to give advice or teach others. They falsely believe because they've been doing magic for ten years that they are a professional, educated, and that this equates with experience and knowledge. It doesn't. Most magicians are part-timers and doing this for ten years is the equivalent of being full-time for maybe 1 to 1-1/2 years (often less). Still very unskilled, uneducated, and with very limited experience. Again, delusional. Worse yet they believe because they've been doing it for ten years they are entitled to make such claims like most magicians' websites claim "I've been doing magic since I was 7 years old." They are now 21, so they believe they have been "performing" magic for 14 years! Again, it's crazy and unlike any other type of entertainer. You will not hear someone say "I got my first joke book at 7 years old and now today at 21 I have been a comedian for 14 years! Or I got my first Kiss (toy) guitar when I was 5, today I'm 21 and have been playing for 16 years. It is delusional.

Because since they believe they've been doing this for such a long time they will defend their lack of knowledge sternly. The longer they've been "magicians", the worse this is. Some of the worst are the guys that have been doing this for 20 years, 30 years, or more. They can't recognize that perhaps what they think they know is incomplete or simply wrong. In my coaching and training, I show them in 30 days how incorrect they are, how much they don't know, and often what they have believed to be correct is blatantly wrong and the very thing that has prevented their desired level of success. It's eye-opening and truly a breakthrough moment when it occurs, and it is what also opens up a new world of opportunity for them. Why? Because there was never a structure or system to teach them this from day one. So they just try to figure it out on their own, listen to others just as uninformed magicians as themselves, and do it all from a "me-perspective" and operations model.

In fact, I will go as far as saying over 70% of those claiming to be magicians have never actually performed a show. Then of the 30% that have performed, less than half have an actual structured "show" or performance. Many think that stringing 3-5 magic tricks together in a 5-7 minute set is a "show." The delusion continues on many levels. Today most magician's magic education consists of watching other's (many unqualified to teach) youtube videos. They falsely believe they have a market-ready show when they don't. They believe once they have their "show" together all they need is marketing, and this is their idea of running their "business." It's crazy. I could go on but hopefully you get the idea.

Worse yet in the learning aspects of both their performance (art) and business (science), they are very unique in that they are very monkey see, monkey do. They only care to learn from other magicians (most again who have no just as little qualifications and also deal in misleading, deception, fakery, etc.) who all have limited knowledge and education themselves.

As far as speaking for magicians it too is unlike anything else for any other types of performers. Many comedians make the leap to speaking, as do hypnotists, athletes, authors, musicians, and other types of performers. They all do it legitimately. Magicians, however, always want to take a quick, fake, pseudo way to become a speaker. You are right, they're in no way qualified to be a motivational speaker. Yet, they see other's doing it so they (monkey see, monkey do) do the same thing. About 20 years ago this became popular as the magic community started this with the school market. I know but will not say who started it, but they decided to tell magicians of a new way to make great "weekday money" with their magic. The answer was speaking in schools. Schools were cutting their entertainment budgets but if you claimed (again with the self-proclamation) to be a speaker you could be hired as a guest educator. The worst part is they said "and you don't even need to learn anything new, just add a brief motivational message to your standard kid's show. You could earn an extra $300 per show and if you just do one show each weekday, you can earn $1,500 during the week (days) and still have your kid's party income for the weekends!" What an amazing and fantastic opportunity. All you have to do is have a silk or prop that reveals a motivational message such as "Stay In School" Reading Is Fun", and of course the whole "Magic of..." themes including "The Magic of Reading Show", "The Magic of Math", "The Magic of Science", "The Magic Of Learning", and so on.

BAM! The lightbulbs went off and every magician jumped on the school speaker bandwagon! There were quickly dozens maybe hundreds of these programs and "school speakers" across the country. Yet none of them had a real speaking presentation. None of them were skilled or trained speakers, none of them were motivational in any way, yet I can't tell you how many guys were planning on quitting their job soon and adding another $55,500 a year to their bank account.

I can without thinking name at least 10 magic books, courses, and trainings where they actually teach and encourage this! They still exist today.
However, thinking only like magicians, this quickly backfired on them. Schools that booked these presentations began to feel duped and disappointed that they were not receiving motivational speakers but rather a kiddie magic show with one or two reveals to include a lame "motivational" message. I remember sitting on and PTA board as this was the topic of discussion leading to many participating schools no longer book or trusting magicians for such events, saying they would only hire magicians for possibly a year-end magic show. It left a terrible taste in their mouths that still exists in part to this day.

What's funny is all of these magicians that failed also now falsely believe that the school market sucks and there is no money in the school market. They honestly think "I tried the school market and it is all dried up." They believe they tried and knew the school market. They didn't, not even close, yet this is the self-belief delusion of magicians. I still coach and train magicians to make a six-figure business in the school market. every year still to this day.

There were a handful of magicians that quickly saw this and decided to take the time, and make the effort and investment to become true speakers (some of which I coached and trained) that decided to learn the art and science of speaking and approach this seriously. The first thing they realized what not to call themselves a magician in any way. Some decided to cut the magic from their program altogether. These are the guys that survived the boom.

The same exact thing happened in the corporate world too.

While often here over the years we have talked about my general entertainment business coaching and training, I in fact offer several very specialized trainings including school market training, agent and agency training, press and media training, wedding market training, kids performer training, stage hypnosis training, and I have trained many speakers with my speaker training, coaching, and consulting. In each of these, I teach and operate from an industry perspective, not a "me" perspective (of what I did), not from a community perspective. I can't begin to tell you what a difference this makes. I teach them to think as entertainers and as business owners, not magicians. This is the first step to recovery, lol.

So the answer to your question is truly in the way magicians think, approach, and the often limited ways they operate, educate, and conduct business. This combined with the delusion that comes with this is the answer you are seeking. It took me a long time to understand this which was very trying and difficult. I say this to properly inform, not to cast any shade on magicians, as today I really enjoy working with magicians because there are truly more business opportunities for magicins than most other types of entertainers - IF THEY HAVE THE PROPER MINDSET, UNDERSTANDING, AND PERCEPTION.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On May 25, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
I agree that many magicians do claim to be motivational speakers too. And some could probably be good at speaking, but I would think that most never book any speaking gigs from their magic website. The two markets don’t go hand in hand like many think they would. Sort of like the plumber advertising that he can cut your hair too. The ‘perception’ becomes mixed and distorted.

A speaker is not hired for what they do, a speaker is hired for what they have already done. They usually have had a successful background in business or have experienced some interesting event that others never have. A good speaker has a good story to tell. They deliver more than just entertainment.

The potential buyer's 'perception' is, a magician ‘fools’ the audience, but a speaker ‘moves’ the audience. This perceived perception must be cleared up to have any real success at speaking.

Tom


Tom I have to say this. You make several great points here. Seriously. ESPECIALLY the getting paid for what you have already done.

This is why it is hilarious to me when you see the 25-30 crowd want to be speakers of some sort! It is ridiculous. Even IF they have something to "offer" it must be so much better than older folks do just to bet past the "perception" that you mention later.

While speakers must be "entertaining" it is not the end game. SO many posers have jumped into the fray it is silly.

In short Tom you make some really great points here that I agree with completely. I hope this thread is locked now and saved for posterity!

I am sure the "yea but" crowd will chime in soon LOL.

The progression is often interesting to me. Most who want to branch into "speaking" are not making enough money doing what they are. So it is interesting that often it goes from magician to mentalist, to hypnotist to speaker. ALL rungs or the ladder they fail and then they think they want to fail "up" somehow. They think incorrectly that they are not making money because of the medium they have chosen as opposed to them not being competent at the medium.

This is not ALWAYS the case and I can point to several exceptions to this rule. Some quite close friends of mine as a matter of fact. This is not a blanket statement of perceived fact by me by any means, just saying it "often" happens this way is all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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