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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts 
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Hi,
I am hoping someone can clarify the correct name/origin of two versions of the Under Spread Force. 1. The force card starts on the BOTTOM of the deck. As you spread the deck, you somehow push/pull the card under the spread. (I find this really hard!) 2. The force card is culled from somewhere near the top of the deck (usually about 3/4/5 from the top. (I find this pretty easy) I always lumped them together in my mind, and had the idea both were called the "Hofzinser Under Spread Force". Comments I have read lately, make me think the original Hofsinser version was the one with card on bottom; and someone else created the easier version with card near the top. Is this correct??? ALSO - any tips on the card-on-bottom version would be much appreciated. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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While neither was the first to originate their respective technique, Hofzinser is associated with the bottom-card cull force, and Fred Robinson the near-the-top cull force.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Thanks Rupert
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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The first is Marlo's B.D.E.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2021, magicfish wrote: Just so we're clear, this is incorrect. The spread force from the bottom of the deck can be found in Hofzinser's Card Conjuring. BDE is certainly a finessed exploration of related concepts. But it was originated (and published) much later. |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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The force part of the technique is fairly tangential.
It is not wrong to attribute the action of culling from higher in the deck as a means to force to Hofzinser as the action is merely a Hofzinser spread cull. The force part of it is fairly universal. That said, of course there are specific publications that describe particular combinations as noted above. I generally attribute the method to Hofzinser as the cull used to get it done is attributed to him regardless of the starting point. |
Mr Salk Special user Tied to 568 Posts
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The action from under shouldn’t be that difficult. You have a massive moving fan to cover the shenanigans of most all your fingers.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2021, Mr Salk wrote: I find it extremely difficult. Maybe it's because I have quite dry hands. Somehow you need to wrangle that bottom card from the bottom of the deck in your left hand to underneath the cards in your right hand. And it just doesn't want to move. As I understand it, Harry Lorayne developed his Lorayne Force as an easier way to force the bottom card because he also struggled with the force in question. And Fred Robinson seems to have come up with the alternative to cull the force card from near the top, because that is much easier. So I don't think I am the only one to find it tricky. |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2021, Nikodemus wrote: All the forces that make the bottom deal complicated are at work in the bottom cull treatment of the force. If you do a decent BD, then think of the action more in those terms than in terms of the traditional culling action. Personally, I always control the card higher (usually 4th from top) when using this force. |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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I use my force - THE LORAYNE FORCE - mostly when handling a packet - not a full deck. I still fool magicians with it. Martin Nash used it a LOT. To force a card and to set key cards. Look it up - start learning the good stuff!!!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2021, cfirwin3 wrote: I can't do a bottom deal (yet) - I'm still a beginner really. But this is a very useful insight, thank you. (So I also cull the card from near the top instead) |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Gary Ouellet's TOUCH FORCE is an easy alternative to the Hofzinser one. (ie when the force card starts on the bottom).
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2021, Nikodemus wrote: An easy way to get that bottom card is to buckle it with your left index finger as you spread the cards at the top of the deck. That bottom card will then slide right off.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Under Spread Force - two versions? Which is Hofzinser? (2 Likes) | |
Posted: Jun 2, 2021 06:25 pm 
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