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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1984 Posts |
You have issues. Take your irrational (it's in the other hand) hatred of coin magic someplace else. It is not relevant to this thread. smh...
Quote: On Jun 8, 2021, Dutchie wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
I agree, some serious issues. Maybe adolescence?
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Dutchie New user 94 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, Kaliix wrote: ad hominem attacks don't help cement your argument. but, I guess if you're unable to actually argue against any of the articulate, polite clear and accurate points I made, you've got nothing else. Sobeit. |
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Dutchie New user 94 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, RNK wrote: Get back to the thread and leave the name-calling out of it Bob. |
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AutarchicFlux Special user 583 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, Dutchie wrote: Don't break your arm off patting yourself on the back - you didn't make any articulate or clear points, and you weren't polite. You sound like a complete idiot throughout this thread. Please be quiet and never express these idiotic ideas to anyone again. |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Thank you AutarchicFlux for noticing as well. Most logical people do notice this persons irrational behavior.
Bob
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
Whilst it's true that of course nobody need buy this if they perceive a flaw in its construction, having an interest in performing or purchasing something doesn't automatically validate your opinion.
If my options are: post positive feedback, or stay quiet. What is the forum for? Although there have been some low blows (from both sides) I think it's usually the criticism that leads us all towards improvement. I agree that discrepancies can fly in a performance. But it ought to bother us that they exist at all, shouldn't we seek to eliminate them wherever possible? |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
I think in order to contribute positive feedback you should own the effect and have performed it in order to report real world reactions. Absolutely agree that "speculation" opinions are fine to post. It becomes a problem for those who think they're speculation opinion is right and absolute when they have no idea because they do not own the effect and have performed it for a live audience but yet keep posting their speculation opinions as if it was the only correct opinion and everyone else is wrong.
Not to mention as Kaliix stated, how does anybody know that it wasn't created just as the creator wanted it to be? Further, if you don't like how it was created, fine, you stated your opinion that you're not going to buy it and that you thought it should have been created differently. Ok, thanks for your opinion now let those who think differently state their opinions without need to come back and argue that you think your opinion is the only one that matters and is the only correct opinion.
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
Granted, people saying:
"you messed up in design, just admit it" are being terse in their delivery, but I think the message itself is forgivable. Suggesting a mistake is kinder on the creator than accepting a deliberate error. Furthermore, if you do spot what you perceive to be a flaw, and there's a rebuttal later in the thread that you deem unsatisfactory, surely you've a right to reply? On who can and can't contribute feedback,I couldn't disagree more that you must own and perform everything you'd like to speak about before that feedback is valuable. |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, Sir Romi P wrote: Absolutely not. Profit margin is all that counts nowadays. Releasing half-arsed products is now the norm, and we should just shut up and stop !@#$%in. |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, Sir Romi P wrote: I guess a question for you to answer is do you or anybody other than the creator know for sure that an error was made by the creator? And I never said that one should not speak about an effect before they own it or perform it. This forum is for speculation which IMO is not the same as feedback. I did say that "feedback" cannot be spoken by someone who does not own or have performed the effect. To me, the definition of "feedback" (in a magicians context) is reactions and spoken information that you received from a spectator after performing an effect. What you are posting when not performing or owning an effect is an "opinion" or "speculation", there is no certainty in your statement. With feedback from real world performances there is certainty. Maybe your definition of feedback is different.
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
It is, this is just a difference of definitions. My mistake. I meant it in a more general sense defined by everyone but magicians. If I have to second guess my language because it might be a special interpretation that you have, I'm not sure we can communicate?
I'm not sure why that's a question for me to answer. I haven't expressed how I feel about the discrepancy. I've suggested that the treatment of those who raised it has been poor. Perhaps I've been unclear. Spectators absolutely notice things like this, the suggested answers to the "problem" up to now have all been sub par. |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
The suggestion to answers to the supposed problem up to this point have been overwhelmingly good by the the one(s) who actually performed with it and provided their feedback that the audience loved it and did not notice the supposed flaw.
The suggested treatment of those who have tried to explain the concerns of the suggested flaw also have been very poor. Even to Michael R., an established performer and creator, was lambasted by this Dutchie person. Really? And no, don't second guess your language just use a dictionary and look up the meaning of "feedback". Oh I'll just do it for you: "information about reactions to a product, a person's performance of a task, etc. which is used as a basis for improvement. "throughout this process we have obtained valuable feedback" So in essence when people who don't own or perform with the product are providing speculation and opinion, not feedback.
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Dutchie New user 94 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, RNK wrote: I've never punched a kitten in the face, nor have I hated someone because of their skin color. but I would very vocally speculate that both those things are A Bad Idea. Having done something or not shouldn't preclude your ability to argue as passionately as you choose. Unless that is against the rules, which it isn't. If you'd like to start a topic campaigning for the rules to be changed to suit your opinion of what they should be, go ahead. Otherwise, do try and stay on topic. |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2021, Dutchie wrote: Umm...Yeah, sure, ok Dutchie. No need to lash out because your credibility is sinking with each of your posts.
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
I agree that "Bear Puns" might have been unnecessary.
It was you who said: " To me, the definition of "feedback" (in a magicians context)" If that is the same as the first one that popped up when you Googled "feedback definition", need it be your own definition in a specific context? You tell me to use a dictionary and then use Google? This is from the Cambridge dictionary: "information or statements of opinion about something, such as a new product, that can tell you if it is successful or liked" |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Nope, very first definition using google and not my definition, I just copied and pasted. And how can you "tell (give feedback) if it is successful or liked" when you don't have it or have performed with it?
I give an educated guess..... You can't.
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
I know it was the first definition using Google, that was my point.
I think we're still stumbling over definitions here. Here is a list of examples again from the Cambridge dictionary: There was a lot of positive feedback which was very encouraging. We are always grateful to receive feedback from our listeners. There was a lot of positive feedback on your article about parenting. Feedback is very valuable as it helps us know whether we are giving out TV audience what they like. The parents do not seem to approve of the changes - the feedback so far has been rather negative. Our opinions of a trick posted here for sale are indeed feedback. |
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Sir Romi P New user 13 Posts |
Our messages here are reactions to a product.
Why does your feedback only apply to reactions of spectators? |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
You said it, "Your OPINIONS". And in all your statements above using the word feedback, all them are pertaining to peoples reactions after something has been PRESENTED to them. So in order to receive feedback you have to have done something for the people you are receiving feedback from, so heck I was wrong, not even in just a magicians context, one can only provide feedback after they have done or presented something and received the feedback from the "LISTENERS" or "OBSERVERS".
Thanks for proving my point further.
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