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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » How long to get good with coin magic? (12 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Alfred Borden
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Hi guys,

I have a question: let's say I have around 30 minutes a day to practice coin magic. How long would it take me to become reasonably decent?

Thanks.
Mb217
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Hiya Al, welcome to the Café.😊

I think the greater your interest in coin magic, the more you will put into it as to practice. The more practice you give it, the better you’ll get for sure. If “decent” is your goal, I think you’ll get there with regular practice & focus. It takes time for the moves to fashion into the better flow of routines, and then to better sprinkle in other important additives you will come across.

How long this will take you all depends on you, but the more you give it, the more you’ll get. 😊

Again, welcome to this part of the Café & magic. Good journey to you. 😉
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Mb is right on is one reads your OP questions as "good AT coin magic."

But, if one focuses on "with" then the question is not about handling coins , but of engaging audiences using magic the primary objective,
and "coins as the vehicle" second. Thus, doing other types of magic effects can actually make your coin based efforts more meaningful and powerful.

I was about to give up on coin effects because of hand disabilities until Mb and Tim Feher convinced me to change/develop alternative methods --
so, I had to "become good" all over again. Now I have many eBooks contain sleights and methods I have created or refined. A different "goodness."

Good is subjective, while "being better than yesterday" vary satisfying.

But, thanks for inspiring the thoughts. It made me realize that I don't care if I am "good" by anyone else's standard.
My objective is to discover what my audience expects of magic and to give them something more. Sometimes coin effects is the best way, sometimes not.

The other answer is that at 76 I am not done yet - tomorrow I might create a new coin effect and have to work to get good at it.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
pabloinus
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Alfred, I think also how broader you want to be good at. For instance base on my experience you can do most tricks using finger palms and thumb palm, which are easier to do that if you want to use only classic palm which requires more dexterity and I can not do it correctly.
Same with the vanishes, there are certain vanishes that are easier to master and others that you need a lot of practice to actually fool somebody.
Another factor is the use of gimmicks, a 3 fly is easier with split coins or a TUC than with shells and much easier than just regular coins, so if you add gimmicked coins your education will be faster.

If you limit your sleights of hands and mix few gimmicked coins, in one month of 30min practice each day you will see a noticeable improvement from handling the coins to perform simple tricks.
Alfred Borden
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2021, pabloinus wrote:
Alfred, I think also how broader you want to be good at. For instance base on my experience you can do most tricks using finger palms and thumb palm, which are easier to do that if you want to use only classic palm which requires more dexterity and I can not do it correctly.
Same with the vanishes, there are certain vanishes that are easier to master and others that you need a lot of practice to actually fool somebody.
Another factor is the use of gimmicks, a 3 fly is easier with split coins or a TUC than with shells and much easier than just regular coins, so if you add gimmicked coins your education will be faster.

If you limit your sleights of hands and mix few gimmicked coins, in one month of 30min practice each day you will see a noticeable improvement from handling the coins to perform simple tricks.


That is exactely, what I was looking for. The fact is that I started with coin magic once. I got Bobo's book back then and started practising. Unfortunately, it was extremely tedious and I didn't see any progress for too long, which is why I stopped in the end. (In contrast to cards, where I was able to celebrate my first successes relatively quickly).
Hence my question. I wanted to know what a realistic time horizon is, so as not to have false expectations.
Can you perhaps name a few vanishes, palms, gimmicked coins ... that are relatively easy to learn and with which you can do a lot of different tricks (other than the things you already mentioned)?
(As it looks, I need some "quick" successes to keep me going.)
KungFuMagic
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I swore I would never do coin magic when I got started dipping my toe in. I have palms the size of dinner plates, but the delicate, sausage-like, stub-fingers of a plumber. << Eisenhower Palms and Kennedy Fingers LOL >> Awkward doing most basic manipulations/sleights as written, or as performed by those with longer, slender fingers. THEN .... a few months ago, I stumbled onto a YouTube channel by Rick Holcombe. He has some very simple tutorials on basic skills, and what really helped me was his series on vanishes.

I am a visual, active learner. Coaching is the best strategy for me ... and this was the next best thing. You can find others, but his style is pretty clear, and encouraging. He talks about philosophy of why he likes different things, and he even gives book & page references to sources to look up and see the originals. He may not be the gold standard best, but he was a clear paradigm shift for my coin work. Hell, I can even to a Demanse Change with Ike's now .... with little sausagey fingers. Both Hands! (MB was my motivation to learn that one ... and the subtelty/palm that pairs well with it) ... after only about three weeks of intermittent work on with the Dollars. I'm not ready for performance with it ... but proficient enough to consider working up routines that need it.

It may be worth noting that I am starting coins at age North of 50 ... with surgically rebuilt wrist. Try the technique, practice diligently, learn any actual limitations, adjust what can be adjusted and abandon what simply cannot be overcome. Move on to another technique that can accomplish similar goals.
Nick Sasso
part-time Samurai conjurer
cuchullain
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I second Rick Holcombe - very generously teaching and sharing. May I also suggest looking at some coin box magic. A little easier and a good way to break up a coin routine
countrymaven
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Thanks Pabloinus, I also think that if one learns a few basic sleights and you combine it with some good gimmicks and routines, there are two benefits. First, you raise the level of deception and magic much higher. Second, you get the good feedback and admiration you need to get inspired in coin magic. That is what happened to me.

Next, please don't be afraid to ask magicians which gimmicks to start out with.
Jonathan Townsend
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@Alfred Borden, you mention some early success with cards. Looking back, did you start with small packets of cards? Procedures (such as deal and duck)? Story items? In coinworld this is about like deciding whether to use actual pocket change or special coins. There are fine routines and tricks which serve the student and expert alike. These include the gadabout coins (you saw a version in Bobo's book) and items using clever props such as Robert Swadling's Double Deception. The gadabout routine can be expanded to include additional effects. The Swadling gaff has applications beyond what's in the instructions... including that coins across folks seem to like Smile

To address your question about time to get "good"; that's a matter of a few weeks to get comfortable with coins in your hands for a couple of practical items and then some additional time to explore what you want to carry - and how much effort is required to get the props onstage/offstage.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
gregg webb
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It is a journey that doesn't really end...it keeps going. And good compared to whom? Trouble is, if you do bad work at magic, the audience will see through your feats, or so I've noticed from watching the guys on the scene. So practice a lot and practice every day. Read the books. Avoid the DVD's. It is like playing a guitar or any musical instrument. There is always more to learn.
Mitchael
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As with all sleight of hand the more you know the more you see, thus your self evaluation is not the best measure of how you are progressing. I love hard sleights, love them. They are a goal that even if I never reach a point of feeling comfortable with them, I never abandon them. Eventually sometimes there is a breakthrough, the realization that everyone's hands are similar, but not the same, and suddenly the way you were taught morph's into a technique that fits your hands. With much of magic you are dealing with a secret, an apparatus/gimmick, sleight of hand you are dealing with yourself. It is you and your ability to manipulate objects in such a way as to produce a magical effect. I love reading the various ideas behind misdirection/direction of attention and how it strengthens the effect. Can never get enough of that. One of my passions is transitions. How to get from various palms, concealments displays into all the others. Going from Latta's nowhere palm into back thumb palm.... things like that. I agree with Greg there is always something to learn, a difficult sleight to push towards perfection. Most people have never seen Coin Magic live, you can astound most people just using the basic palms. But if you are like me you want cleaner, more open, smoother, more impossible. I maybe biased. Thanks for all the inspiration.
Mb217
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Agree with the last two posts, as one thing takes you into another and shows you more & more about yourself and your audience. My effect, is [b]Double Trouble[] would be a great example of what Mitchael her is saying, as you stretch to do more & more…See for yourself…

https://mb217magic.gumroad.com/#WtloD
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
funsway
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Not only is the innovation and 'morphing' a continuous process if one is willing to look at desired results and work backwards,
but the potential for psychological ploys is immense. Then a combination of Moves, Sleight sand Ploys leads to a new perspective
and more creativity or innovation. Of course, performing a sequence hundreds of times for live people helps too.

My recently release eBook 'Eminent Coin Production" is the result of more than 50 years of playing with the "perfect opening production series."
Suddenly, a focus on the segue from one production to the next with showing the hands empty in between lead to a quantum leap of
one phase masking the sleight of another and I was able to incorporate FullOn techniques for every phase.

How long does it take to get good? At 76 I am not done yet - just better than I was yesterday.
My hand disabilities prevent me from doing 80% of what I ustacould. So, I have to find new ways to achieve old results,
and often create sleights that others can use too.

By the way, for those who are enjoying Eminent Coin Productions, due to many requests I have release "FullOn Mystique" that describes the five decade creative process.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Lawrens Godon
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Quote:
On Jul 16, 2021, Mitchael wrote:
One of my passions is transitions. How to get from various palms, concealments displays into all the others.


We should meet someday because this is a focal point in my work Smile
The Gold Coin
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Alfred,

I'd agree with Jonathan on the timeline. It's at least a few weeks to get comfortable with the props (read: not constantly drop them) and learn a few moves, and then maybe dedicate a solid month to polishing your first full length (~2ish minute) routine. I too was frustrated by Bobo's, mostly because the effects were on the shorter side, and it just seemed like I wasn't making progress. Looking at the NYCMS (New York Coin Magic Seminar) material might be a better place to start for routines once you've practiced a few moves. Or find a routine you adore and pour everything into learning it (3-fly is my favourite). Some of the best looking routines are not technically hard (see Roth), and others are knuckle-bustlingly difficult (Harbottle). I found picking a routine as a goal, and then learning all the relevant material with the goal in mind helped.

I would personally avoid the fancy/special coins until later. While they can make amazing effects happen, the basics are still critically important, and that's what to focus on in the beginning. They also can look **far too magical**, so then when you do a routine without them, it won't blend.
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