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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts 
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My take on the Scarne's Aces plot. Works well for that occasional 'off the cuff' home card game moment. Obviously, this is not very covert to those that use the sleight(s) in question. But I find this approach to be very accessible and it gets you all the way to the proverbial top of the mountain in a surprisingly reliable way.
Been doing this in impromptu settings for years and it never fails to turn heads and get that "I don't want to play cards with you!" reaction. Enjoy! https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/15646 |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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Relaxed and controlled. Very nice trailer.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Indigo Regular user 104 Posts
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But, the Zarrows are very obvious.
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 23, 2021, Indigo wrote: Never seen one that isn't to those that know it... and so it goes with much more. I could write volumes on how video recording and the modern market place have negatively changed magic consumer thinking, but I'll just say, I think there's a ton of great magic that doesn't get performed. |
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salmononius2 New user 96 Posts
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Here's my 2 cents, from just your average hobbyist (or another "common magician", if you will
 ).
First off, I appreciate the fact that the entire performance is shown in the demo. None of that pointless (and often deceptive) editing. The downside is you're essentially giving away the routine for people who aware of the sleights (as per the comments here), although realistically that probably wasn't your target market. And hopefully if someone finds your routine to their taste, even if they can figure out every step, I'd hope they would still purchase it to give you some credit. Although your description uses words like 'impromptu' and 'a truly shuffled deck', from what I'm seeing there, the Aces are in position from the start of the video. I wouldn't call that impromptu or truly shuffled. Otherwise, I'm sort of torn about this. Personally, I'm not much of an 'Instant Downloads' person, but as far as they go, this one seems reasonable. Haven't seen the teaching on this one, but if it's a decent teaching of a bunch of false shuffles and cuts, and an explanation of how to routine it together, $4 seems like a reasonable price for a quick ace cutting routine. Whether it's necessary I'll leave that to others to decide. I mean, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly groundbreaking here, it's a bunch of shuffles and cuts, but then again not everything has to be a groundbreaking routine. It's a decent routine, and if someone is in to buying individual trick downloads, this looks like it might work for them. |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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On Jun 23, 2021, salmononius2 wrote: This is the real thing. The aces are shuffled and their locations are unknown at the start. There is no slug. The Zarrow is obvious to magicians looking at this (and I am unconcerned by that). The method is far more than the shuffle. Hopefully that helps you decide! |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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HaLo Aces.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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On Jun 24, 2021, Harry Lorayne wrote: Love your HaLo Aces! |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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On Jun 23, 2021, cfirwin3 wrote: The Zarrow can be done without any of the usual tells. Gary Plants and Steve Reynolds are two that have devised ways around the "stuffing the turkey" action that is commonly seen. If you check out their work, then you will see a shuffle that not even magicians can identify as a Zarrow shuffle.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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On Jun 24, 2021, Tortuga wrote: Many of the solutions that they provide (which are great) are not compatible with this procedure because it isn't a conventional application. I am familiar with both Plants' and Reynolds' work on it. Really great work from both. But I also disagree, in that anyone that knows what they are doing will see it. There are things that are added, and some concessions that are made with their philosophies on the Zarrow. I argue that there isn't really anything wrong with the original Zarrow, apart from the fact that it is known. Personally, I prefer the right hand packet forward approach when I do it and that is how I employ it here to make the procedure work. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I've been doing the Zarrow Shuffle for more than 40 years and when Steve Reynolds did it on a live lecture on The Magician's Forum he blew me away. He did fair shuffles and Zarrow Shuffles and they appeared exactly the same. The same.
https://youtu.be/gwemFZzwYx8
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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I think we can all stipulate to the fact that people doing the Zarrow for 40 years will recognize the Zarrow in this routine.
The hard part is to see an effect through the eyes of a layperson. The longer we sit in our bubbles the harder it is to see how a sleight or move might look to the uninitiated.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Nobody is disputing the fact that laypeople see things differently from magicians. And the longer you are in magic, the less you are able to pretend to see from their vantage point.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for proper technique, does it?
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1947 Posts
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Nice and fluent rhythm, Carl. But I would be more concerned about your gaze than by your Zarrow. I like very much Jerry Zadowitz’ Zarrow culling method because it frees you up from staring at the cards during the riffle shuffle.
A Zarrow always has tales – especially in isolation. But, an expertly performed Zarrow as part of an elaborate shuffling and cutting sequence can deceive, I believe. In that Youtube video, Steve Reynolds’s Zarrows look great and rank among the best, but a couple of tales, though much subtler, are still perceptible. However, I have no doubt that with a modicum of misdirection (as he would use during an effect for example) his Zarrows would be most deceptive. I think the question is not whether experienced magicians can fool one another with a Zarrow (feast that very few could ever reach), but whether they are performed well enough so as not to attract attention to themselves and fool lay people. After all, very few magicians, if any, would be fooled by an Elmsley Count or a Criss Force, whatever the level of expertise of the performer, so why should one expect to be deceived by an inherently flawed false shuffle? |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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On Jun 24, 2021, Tortuga wrote: Now we are getting into identifying a better known treatment as 'improper' vs. a lesser known treatment as more 'proper'. A lot of people see things that way, but it's really a philosophical distinction rather than an objective one, considering spectators that know neither. As I said before, in the context of my procedure, many of the touches that Reynolds and others have put on the Zarrow are 'no go' in this case, even if one is adamant about their use. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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There's obviously misunderstanding going on here. I offered up the examples of Gary Plants and Steve Reynolds not as examples of "proper" technique, but examples of good-looking Zarrow Shuffles. Period.
My comment regarding proper technique was in reference to the statement you made in a previous post: "The Zarrow is obvious to magicians looking at this (and I am unconcerned by that)." In my opinion I think you should be concerned. Not in an attempt to fool magicians (unlikely) but in attempting to do the move as good as possible. So why not try? That's all.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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On Jun 24, 2021, Tortuga wrote: I don't think Reynolds is concerned that I can see his variations on the Zarrow when he does it (especially the ones that he has shared). I also remain unconcerned. I'm sorry if you feel that I am suggesting something that I am not with regard to excellence. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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OK, I give up.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 24, 2021, Tortuga wrote: Tortuga, this seems to be your way of saying that the shuffle shown in the demo is not a good looking Zarrow. A couple quick points I'd like to make here. First, given that he filmed this at the worst possible angle for the move, I'm surprised it looks as good as it does. Spectators aren't going to be viewing this at such an obtuse angle. In my experience, what trumps any tells are that the moves are done casually and smoothly. He achieves this effortlessly. Second, the quality of the move is immaterial to the routine being shown. If I'm able to execute a move better than someone does on a demo, I don't spend time discussing how their move isn't as good as those who do it the best (e.g. Plants and Reynolds). On that count, we'd all be in trouble. Instead, I think to myself how much better the routine would look in my hands, and I judge the routine on that basis. Finally, at some point we all hit the wall of diminishing returns. If the "noticeability rate" is 1%, then how many hours (or hundreds of hours) are required to get that number down to .5% or lower? Is it worth that time investment? In other words, when is it good enough? Well, that's up to each individual performer. Carl has answered that question for himself. If your 40 year old Zarrow is as rock solid as I'd like to think it is, Tortuga, then this routine would be an absolute killer in your hands. Good thoughts.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Steven, the only thing I want to address is that I was not saying his Zarrow should be as good as anyone's. In fact, I took pains to not actually comment on specifics of the shuffle, but more his reaction to another magician who said it was "very obvious". He wasn't bothered by it and I think he should be.
Regarding the trailer, I realize he isn't a professional videographer, but Please tell me you don't think a demonstration shouldn't be the best it can be? That's nonsense. Sure, we understand it is a demonstration, but it should show everything in the best light. So change the angle and do it again. What's the big deal. Carl says he can tell when ANYONE is doing a Zarrow Shuffle. That's why I posted the link to Steve's execution of the Zarrow. If he did that in the middle of a routine I find it difficult to believe that even seasoned magicians would immediately tell it was a Zarrow. I've seen him do fair riffles and then a Zarrow and he makes them look the same.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Posted: Jun 22, 2021 09:02 pm 
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