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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » How to Control Minds Kit (170 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Roberto W
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Thanks for chiming in Pete and detailing everything. As you said, maybe people are confusing jam sessions with the content not being in there? Or maybe a case Pete knows when each effect was performed live, but E from a final production side have not included the performances in the project?
Rhewin
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Hey Pete,

Thanks for replying. It’s mainly Ellusionist’s comment about all of the performances being in the kit, it made it seem like the Dice Man performances were just extras. The performances you listed are there for sure, but they’re clipped together (Midas Touch 2x has two performances that it cuts back and forth to). It makes it a bit harder to reference them in comparison to the teaching. You are watching one video and then have to switch to another and try to find the right time stamp.

To be clear, I am not complaining about the material, but the performances weren’t presented as I expected due to that comment in the update. Also please don’t think I’m ungrateful. The teaching and jam sessions have already changed how I am going to approach some effects. I know this was a huge labor of love on your part and it shows.

Edit: Trying to explain what I mean. In HTRM, there was a video dedicated to performances. I was expecting the same here instead of them being intercut with the documentary.
Xcath1
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I have to agree with the performances critique. Especially if you were a newbie unfamiliar with this material as surely many E customers are. For the price I expected a formally organized product with a performance or two followed by the explanation. Not a video with random and cut and unlabeled up performances stuck in. That is my opinion.
SoloDoubleAct
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There is a ton of content in this package, especially if you got the whole kit-and-kaboodle. Just wanted to chime in and give an updated "review" adding that Mind Games, the Psy Force videos, has some really really stellar work inside it! Oh my goodness, the value in there alone is staggering!

There isn't one "trick" I could highlight here since this is more tips and tricks, but the second half of Part 2, and the effects discussed in there are *chef's kiss*
252life
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^^
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Peter_turner
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2021, Xcath1 wrote:
I have to agree with the performances critique. Especially if you were a newbie unfamiliar with this material as surely many E customers are. For the price I expected a formally organized product with a performance or two followed by the explanation. Not a video with random and cut and unlabeled up performances stuck in. That is my opinion.


I completely understand the complaint from a formatting aspect (trick then explanation) - I honestly didn’t want that format for this, personally I’m bored of it, I even mentioned that on the set, I wanted something that stood out and was different, it was an artistic decision. This time I wanted a documentary. When I created ‘the bigger fish files’, I created a full television show and then broke that show down piece by piece. It was so different to what had been presented before and it was fun and exciting for me to create. It was a way to express my art on a different type of canvas. When I create a YouTube later down the line, the reason for the documentary will completely make sense.

Maybe the format wasn’t for everyone - and that’s ok, especially those accustomed to the way other magic sets are shot but it’s just not me. I don’t get any fun shooting that way and it would show in my approach to the product and delivery. In regards to ‘the price’, look at how many people are complaining that the price for the material is too little. How you expect something to be organised does not, and cannot ever be a factor in the way I approach things and deliver things - I am not saying that nastily or egotistically but it’s a redundant criticism. Banksy chooses where he paints, it wouldn’t make sense to tell him “he should do it on a canvas” - the moment the audience get involved in the creative process, is the moment it ceases to be the artists.

Your sets can be designed that way and you can price them how you decide Smile I promise I won’t complain.

I will however see what I can do to put together a pdf with a set of time stamps on - to make it easy to jump to each performance. Your point about titling the performances was great - I don’t know why we didn’t put a title on them, it’s a simple oversight which will improve the ease next time and is a good addition, thanks for that, will definitely be doing that if I create anything like this again.

I still don’t get the quibble about ‘cut up’ performances - every performance is presented IN FULL nothing cut out start to finish, THEN if a performance is ever repeated for a second time it is repeated with a full performance made up of two other performances cut together.

For example ‘Midas Touch’,- There is a full performance start to finish with nothing missing, then you see two more performances but they are cut together as one - so in essence you see the performance again (with none of the viral moments missing) the reason for this is A) after seeing the performance (in full) why do you need to see it again? Remember most magic video sets/ downloads only perform an effect ONCE anyway then teach it - Take the performance where the spectators keep freaking out and running away, do you really need to see me waiting for them to come back each time and calming down, before I can continue? It makes no sense to take a performance that usually runs around the minute and half, to two minute mark and to waste five minutes of everyone’s time waiting for the people to walk back, calm themselves enough to continue. It was either lose that piece of footage or use it… it was far too good to lose. It’s still a full performance of Midas touch a second time also - As I say, the only thing cut out is the people walking back and you see a third performance in its place.

If you have an issue with seeing two full performances cut together - simply watch the FULL performance presented right before the two full performances that are cut together - I don’t really get the what the issue is?

All the hand sticks and name amnesias (there are multiple) are FULL uncut performances, as are the Jedi push routines, as is the bonus item revelation, also the memory divination (on stage) is full.

‘Insurance’ you see a FULL performance and then after that’s finished it cuts to a revelation/ reaction of the same effect as you didn’t need to see the full thing twice in a row.

‘Jedi theft’ - one performance is full and the second performance I break down piece by piece so you know what’s going on in each moment.

‘The try principle’ on the instructor has a cut at the beginning - where you get a behind the scenes in the explanations of what goes on in that moment - that no one else is privy to.

‘Friction’ is a full performance.

There’s no performance that isn’t presented in full on the set. Ambidextrous is a full ten minute routine with one stationary camera. Maybe I’ve missed something and if I have I apologise, but I don’t think there’s a performance that can’t be watched in its entirety to learn from. Every other time there’s the effect repeated (performances cut together / made up of two) they’re a bonus and all extra things to learn something from. This wouldn’t even be an issue if I’d not added extra videos outside of the full performances I did add - when thinking of it from that perspective doesn’t even make sense as a complaint.

I do mention on the set that rewind and replay is your best friend.

With this material it’s not just about copying what you see anyway, it’s about being playful and using the tools and principles to experiment and really have people doing things you never expected.

If you watched the documentary and got to part two and saw the performances and it had you pumped to try them out, then that’s all I could ask for - yeah you might have to put a bit of time in to rewatch the performances by scrubbing though but ask yourself - are the effects worth that? If the answers “yes”, perfect it doesn’t matter, if the answers “no” then you were never going to learn them anyway.

Pete x
Roberto W
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Quick question to everyone that already has the kit delivered… in your E account it shows play categories eg introduction, the effects etc. When the kit arrives, does it just contain the physical props or does the kit also include addition digital material to watch eg other effects? Or is everything to watch (effects/performances/teachings) all already in your E account complete to watch now?

Thanks
Xcath1
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It seems like all of the videos are in yiur account now
Peter_turner
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2021, Roberto W wrote:
Quick question to everyone that already has the kit delivered… in your E account it shows play categories eg introduction, the effects etc. When the kit arrives, does it just contain the physical props or does the kit also include addition digital material to watch eg other effects? Or is everything to watch (effects/performances/teachings) all already in your E account complete to watch now?

Thanks


The digital shelf (account) should contain the documentary. This content was delivered to the kickstarter buyers before the kit was delivered for a couple of reasons, the one main one is that we were told at one point that there was a snag in the loading of content onto the USB keys and then the ability to deliver the keys which would hold the kits up into January / early February. This was down to covid restrictions imposed in the region that was loading the keys and posting them. Myself and other members of the team weren't going to take a hit on that for the promise that the material would be delivered before xmas. So the content was made available in the event that kits weren't going to make out until January. We managed to get the keys collected by a courier and posted to America and had the keys loaded and this put the delivery of the kits back on track.

The second reason is that it was nice for the backers to receive the content early.

I might be wrong, but from what I know (don't take my word on it as I don't deal with the backend stuff) Only part one and part two of the documentary was made available initally and maybe a few explanations - The jam sessions (which are hours) of content - were not, nether was a few of the routines, outside of the documentary.

There is a book that came with the set, a behind the scenes of a few stories of things that occurred during the filming of the kit - a behind the scenes if you will with an effect that use dice included.

So to answer your question - Yes there are additional ideas and content added.

The pen is also very good for the 'Try principle' routine - If you own it you will know why.

If other content has been added to the accounts it is likely to cater to the regions that wont receive their kits in time for xmas.

Pete x
Rhewin
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Pete, I appreciate the measured response and your artistic integrity. I did go back and rewatch, and yes all of them are in full. The Midas Touch 2x does come after a full single performance. And yes, watching the documentary absolutely did get me pumped up, and it is worth the effort to find them. In fact I might even just clip them out for my own personal use.

Perhaps E wasn’t on the same page. If it had been clear those were the performances I probably wouldn’t have brought this up. It seems more a marketing snafu more than anything. Their comment on the Dice Man pt2 was really the most confusing thing. I suppose it hyped me up for something that wasn’t there.

And yes, I absolutely agree it’s best to not try to emulate a performance. You and I have very different ways of handling spectators, so to me the jam sessions are actually more important than doing it exactly as Pete Turner does.
Winnes
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OK,Ok, I give in. I didn't want to post this at the risk of sounding stupid as hell, but...

How the hell are you supposed to use the pen? Ive got a (very nice) brass cylinder and a separate pen inner thing but cant for the life of me figure it out. Im almost convinced Ive been given a dud instead of an actual pen...
Rhewin
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2021, Winnes wrote:
OK,Ok, I give in. I didn't want to post this at the risk of sounding stupid as hell, but...

How the hell are you supposed to use the pen? Ive got a (very nice) brass cylinder and a separate pen inner thing but cant for the life of me figure it out. Im almost convinced Ive been given a dud instead of an actual pen...


After you take the cap off you just twist the head of the pen. After it comes off you can put the ink in and replace everything.
Winnes
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Ok then I definitely don’t have a proper pen thing. There’s no cap or anything that can twist, it’s just a pen sized hexagonal block with a wee hole in the end. I’m confused.
Rhewin
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2021, Winnes wrote:
Ok then I definitely don’t have a proper pen thing. There’s no cap or anything that can twist, it’s just a pen sized hexagonal block with a wee hole in the end. I’m confused.


Trust me, your pen is fine. The cap is the opposite side of the hole you’re talking about. It twists off counter clockwise. If you look very close you’ll see the seam.
Winnes
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2021, Rhewin wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 12, 2021, Winnes wrote:
Ok then I definitely don’t have a proper pen thing. There’s no cap or anything that can twist, it’s just a pen sized hexagonal block with a wee hole in the end. I’m confused.


Trust me, your pen is fine. The cap is the opposite side of the hole you’re talking about. It twists off counter clockwise. If you look very close you’ll see the seam.


Jeez, you’re right. Crikey
dvno
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I am really interested in the pen now.
252life
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Lmao it’s the surprise mystery treat in the box. Every single thing magic/mentalism aside...I just like the pen! Not even trying to justify it lol it’s just a cool little thing that feels good in the hand, and something I hope to have handy during a mugging Smile
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Rhewin
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I had a bit of time and pulled out the time stamps of all of the full performances. Hopefully Pete can chime in if I missed one or two or misnamed one.

The following are all on The Dice Man pt 2:

8:55 - Hand Stick to Name Amnesia
15:27 - Memory Divination
18:45 - Midas Touch
20:20 - Midas Touch (double performances)
21:57 - No Table Hand Stick to Name Amnesia
23:44 - Jedi Push
25:49 - Insurance
33:10 - Jedi Choke
39:00 - Hand Stick to Name Amnesia plus PIN reveal
41:41 - Friction
45:27 - Object Divination
47:30 - Jedi Push
48:43 - Knockback Induction
50:00 - Try Principal and Name Revelation
53:57 - Jedi Push performed by Spectator
58:42 - Suggestibility Test with Hand Stick
1:00:06 - Name Amnesia
1:02:10 - Knockback Induction plus Hypno Bet

These are from Performances Director's Cut:
6:07 - Ambidextrous
36:04 - Knockback Induction with Jedi Theft

And of course the bonus Jedi Theft video comes with Jedi Theft.
SoloDoubleAct
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Personally I found the Dice Man video style engaging. Yes it isn't a clear cut as typical performance videos go, and tbh the timestamps should have come with it already. Kudos Rhewin for that!

In VLC player it's really easy to scrub around in the videos.
Roberto W
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Quote:
On Dec 13, 2021, Rhewin wrote:
I had a bit of time and pulled out the time stamps of all of the full performances. Hopefully Pete can chime in if I missed one or two or misnamed one.

The following are all on The Dice Man pt 2:

8:55 - Hand Stick to Name Amnesia
15:27 - Memory Divination
18:45 - Midas Touch
20:20 - Midas Touch (double performances)
21:57 - No Table Hand Stick to Name Amnesia
23:44 - Jedi Push
25:49 - Insurance
33:10 - Jedi Choke
39:00 - Hand Stick to Name Amnesia plus PIN reveal
41:41 - Friction
45:27 - Object Divination
47:30 - Jedi Push
48:43 - Knockback Induction
50:00 - Try Principal and Name Revelation
53:57 - Jedi Push performed by Spectator
58:42 - Suggestibility Test with Hand Stick
1:00:06 - Name Amnesia
1:02:10 - Knockback Induction plus Hypno Bet

These are from Performances Director's Cut:
6:07 - Ambidextrous
36:04 - Knockback Induction with Jedi Theft

And of course the bonus Jedi Theft video comes with Jedi Theft.


Amazing - thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
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