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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ How to Control Minds Kit (170 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nick23
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The biggest issue I see is that it's being marketed as making the "shy kid cool" and being the "life of a party" if you are normally quiet.

The effects rely on such precise scripting and confidence that any of those kids that try this will probably fail or get busted.

While the effects will work for experienced performers with good audience management skills, the newbie kid trying this at school will just get embarrassed when it falls flat. This is not the right material for someone just starting out in this area of magic.
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
252life
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Quote:
On Aug 26, 2021, Peter_turner wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2021, ed wood wrote:
I recently picked up a copy of Midas Touched used for £20. It is without a doubt the worst PK touch routine I've ever come across. Absolutely fine until your audience talk to each other afterwards, it will unravel in seconds. The third touch wouldn't fool a child. Clearly the product of someone who has no experience actually performing (apart from for awful ellusionist videos where you can show instant over reactions and ignore the conversations a few seconds later where they figure out what happened).
Now he's back to his old tricks of flogging other peoples closely guarded secrets to kids on kickstarter. "Get known as the most interesting kid at school" indeed.
Why oh why do people continue to support this man, flogging the same regurgitated material again and again? The majority of his tricks are boring or unworkable, the rest is minor updates on classic material. Selling these sets on kickstarter with comments like "No skills required" should make him a pariah amongst magicians (although having seen him perform it is fair to say his only real skill it talking for so long that you no longer care how whatever he's doing is done, you just want it to finish and then you can run away (giving the impression you're amazed not just desperate to get away). It's time people realised that not only does the emperor have no clothes but he knows it


It always amazes me that people who donít like me/ donít like my material always find their way onto threads about me and videos to comment - When I donít like food, I donít order it in a restaurant.

Take five minutes out of your day to look at the rave reviews about Midas touch by many, many professional performers - it takes only a minute to find a lot here on the Cafť. It might not fool anyone when you do it, but no one else has ever had a problem doing it and if youíve read the booklet carefully youíd know the routine encourages people to talk. Iím sure people on this thread can quite easily verify that, if you understood the nuances or had studied it and actually tried it, you wouldnít be here posting what you have so it leads me to believe one of four things.

One - you havenít performed it, in which case your lack of experience on the subject matter doesnít make you a good person to listen to in regards to the subject.

Two - you have performed it, in which case Iíve never encountered problems and therefore could it be down to your performance - I canít perform it for you.

Three - youíre trolling.

Four - you genuinely didnít like it, and thatís fine. Thereís nothing wrong with having a different style or way to approach things. Though your post doesnít read like that, in my opinion it reads as though youíre bitter, as it seems more about me than it does the material - which makes it bias, thatís not a good perspective to approach reviewing material from. The key is to be objective.

I performed this for a well paid corporate event in London (which was filmed and is in the set) for a well known bank. They recently emailed me that out of the three acts mine was the talking point for days afterwards and theyíve asked to book me back for their xmas party.

In regards to me talking a lot, I do like to talk - I could talk the glass eye out of a dead dog. I agree with you there. Can we see a few of your videos? Id be happy to take a look. I also think it would be productive for people to understand where your view point is coming from, and whether it can be trusted. My videos are up, people can see them and judge for themselves, they also have the reviews of many other people here to go on, Iíd like to see so we know what makes all of them really know what makes them so wrong. Maybe youíre the emperor in this scenario? Letís see your clothes.


Pete x



Amen! I've performed Midas as a closer with rave reactions EVERY time. I've incorporated the Try Principle into a bunch of my work as well and the list goes on. I wasn't always a fan of Pete's. I always loved what he was striving towards though. Eventually I did a complete 180 and stand behind that choice as his material over the past years has been stunning and workable in the real world for paid events. If anyone doesn't like that, to bad. I don't know Pete personally, and have nothing to gain by singing praise for his work but fair is fair. If you are not capable of performing the material then don't. But don't disparage the man, or the people that appreciate his contributions. It's trolls that make this place unpalatable at times. Thank goodness for the trusted voices here that I rely on for honest conversation. Wow, I'm just on page one of this thread, can't wait to see what follows...back to it.
Good mind controling to all Smile
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Aug 26, 2021, Nick23 wrote:
The biggest issue I see is that it's being marketed as making the "shy kid cool" and being the "life of a party" if you are normally quiet.

The effects rely on such precise scripting and confidence that any of those kids that try this will probably fail or get busted.

While the effects will work for experienced performers with good audience management skills, the newbie kid trying this at school will just get embarrassed when it falls flat. This is not the right material for someone just starting out in this area of magic.


On the flip side, those shy kids sometimes when they adopt magic and mentalism into their lives, are also the ones that perform amazingly well and often lack fear in working what many would consider risky material (in the sense that it might not be like a move based piece where as long as itís executed properly, you canít really fail) and making it work incredibly well. Think about the material Luke Jermay came up with early on. He was a kid back then and the community claimed his material was unworkable. From Building Blocks I built my coin bend routine using his suggestion principles. Ben Earl later on released Skin and everybody in the community at that point all loved it. Well, Skin was essentially what I was doing for my coin bend routine which again, I just created by using what I learned in Building Blocks and applied it.

So, I think itís a little unfair to make the assumption that the quiet shy noob kid at school would fail miserably with this material. In a lot of ways, they may actually turn out to be the most successful with this type material. Why? Because they are new, they donít know what the established ďrulesĒ are yet so anything and everything is possible. Smile
252life
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Agreed
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Nick23
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While someone new to magic may not be put off by how risky these methods are because they don't have a point of reference, to do these effects well I believe they still require some good showmanship and performing experience.

The ad copy even says this is a "copy and paste talent". I couldn't disagree more.

The average shy introvert will not be able to do these justice if at all. There is more to being a good magician than knowing how a trick works.

Like I said, the material may be workable to someone experienced but the way this is being advertised is not sitting well with me.
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
252life
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Quote:
On Aug 27, 2021, Nick23 wrote:
While someone new to magic may not be put off by how risky these methods are because they don't have a point of reference, to do these effects well I believe they still require some good showmanship and performing experience.

The ad copy even says this is a "copy and paste talent". I couldn't disagree more.

The average shy introvert will not be able to do these justice if at all. There is more to being a good magician than knowing how a trick works.

Like I said, the material may be workable to someone experienced but the way this is being advertised is not sitting well with me.



I agree with you on all of this
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Peter_turner
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Quote:
On Aug 27, 2021, Nick23 wrote:
While someone new to magic may not be put off by how risky these methods are because they don't have a point of reference, to do these effects well I believe they still require some good showmanship and performing experience.

The ad copy even says this is a "copy and paste talent". I couldn't disagree more.

The average shy introvert will not be able to do these justice if at all. There is more to being a good magician than knowing how a trick works.

Like I said, the material may be workable to someone experienced but the way this is being advertised is not sitting well with me.


No one knows what is on the set yet and the safeguards that I have put in place.

The way I have constructed most the effects makes them all fail-safe and easy to perform so there is no risk. The only effect I can see someone having to take the time to learn is Midas Touch - The rest can be learnt and performed practically instantly. Each of them relies on the same technique with the outside of that technique changing. Without watching the set and the jam session on the set it's impossible to know how easy this stuff is going to be. As you can see in the trailer, I literally taught someone how to do the Jedi push in under 2 minutes - AND if you watch the explanation of that effect where the guy is learning, I added pseudo fluff into the learning so he still got an effect when it had happened - even though I taught him the method! He left believing it was chi and syncopated breathing - It was strong to watch as I didn't want to expose the idea to him.

Midas touch is broken down into 3 routines, it is taught as 3 separate routines so that you learn each phase independently and get a smaller effect from each of the phases and then you string them together as one.

I agree that good performance and good mentalism takes time to master, I speak at lengths about that on the set. I teach the importance of practice, I also talk about which effects to go out and try straight away as it's beneficial to the practice of those routines and which to privately rehearse and how to rehearse them. I spent a long time finding the best ways to teach this material to make it digestible. In my opinion, it is better to learn that practice is extremely important, those that learn that lesson, learn the right way from the start. Those that don't want to put the time in, won't anyway and will only take from the set what they believe they can do instantly - which there are a number of things on the set that they can do straight away - If they don't do it well, they will either then take the time to learn properly or drop it. I am a massive believer that getting people out actually performing for people (good or bad) before they realise that it actually takes confidence to perform for people is one of the best lessons people can learn. I have quite a number of friends that keep saying, "I am going to study a bit more before I go and perform for people", "I just don't have the confidence to go and do it" they have said things like this for years and never do. The reason this is the case is that they have psyched themselves out with the worry of failure. They think it is important for them not to fail, not to get busted, not to be seen making mistakes or performing badly - When the exact opposite is true. You only learn from making mistakes, being caught and not doing your job well, it helps you learn and learn fast - It also allows you to understand that it's not the end of the world if that does happen. The friends I know who have psyched themselves out will now likely never perform because they have made it into such a big thing that is no longer fun for them its past that point. Think back to when you first got the bug, you were performing things for fun and you didn't care about anything else.

Remember, beginners aren't performing to paid crowds, in professional contexts, they are performing to friendly audiences, close friends or family.

My son is 13, I always attempt to teach him anything that I think is going to be difficult to learn or execute and then ask him what he understood and what he struggled with and then I change my approach to teaching it. I taught my son most of the material on this set, including Midas Touch and I can tell you, he can perform it and performs it well.

I have drilled into him the importance of practice, just the other day I was driving 12 hours through the entire of France and he sat practising a billet move for most of the journey - He did it over and over, it was lovely to see, to be honest. I can only do so much, as I said above, the marketing and trailer is less than 1% of the actual product, I have been doing magic since the age of 4/5 that's coming up to 30 years soon - Was I a natural definitely not, I had to put in the hours and I talk about that very openly on the set.

I am confident that anyone who gets this set, beginner or professional will walk away with something. For those who are more well versed, even if you have seen some of this material before the new uses and updates will be worth the price of entry. The jam session could be a project all on its own and I am confident in the material.

Can some of the effects be copied and pasted into your act? Yes definitely. Should they be? definitely not.

Pete x
The Unmasked Magician
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Very interesting discussion here. Thanks, gents.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
mantel
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pro magician [Sylar, Peter Turnerís friend], refuses to perform, after seeing THIS...

pro magician [Sylar, Peter Turnerís Friend], refused to follow him on stage




Peter Turner please let Sylar perform!

Save Sylar
Robert P.
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Thanks Peter, for taking the time to reply.

Though tempted, I did not purchase the How to Read Minds kit when it was first offered through Kickstarter. I figured that since I was already familiar with most of the methods, and had many of the props, I would pass on the kit. After reading the reviews and how much effort was put into the explanations, I decided not to make that mistake with How to Control Minds. I also like the add-ons included. (I'd like to eventually pick up the How to Read Minds kit for the insight provided by Pete, but I better wait a bit after what I spent on this latest KS project)

I did have a question on what exactly is the Legacy Book collection. To me it seems like physical versions of the Mentalism Masterclass E-book series? I'm already in for this add-on but it would be great if there were more details on what these are.

Now only if Bigger Fish Files became available again, I missed out on getting this offering.
Mark_Chandaue
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As far as people talking after the Midas touch, in my experience people do not break it down to the timeline it comes down to two themes, audience members are interested in whether the person genuinely felt the touches, not one by one, the question tends to be did you really feel him touch you, to which the answer is yes. The participant is interested in whether the performer was anywhere near him when the touches occurred to which the answer is no. The audience and the participant assume that their perceptions of the timeline are the same. I have yet to hear conversation of when the touch happened, only if and where.

Mark
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RonCalhoun
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My opinion of Peter Turner, ellusionist, the kits being offered.
I only own the How to read minds kit.
My opinion is Peter Turner is a (g)od. Not the god but a god.
The props in HTRMkit covered abroad range of information. Peeks, PW, marked cards, double sided principles. Switch devices, writing devices and more.

But Peter teaching the principles in class and explaining the Basic theories.
I have never meant Peter but would love too.
So final verdicts ... my one encounter was so successful Iím going to order mind control.

👊🏼
Michael Zarek
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I think Peter is underestimating his own talent if he thinks high school kids could replicate his effects with little to no effort.

Like the effects are great and all (from what I know from his other projects) and yet I feel many kids will be disappointed because of the marketing. Especially if they have no knowledge of DR before watching this
Reader discretion is advised.
Fatgumbo
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I got into magic thanks to Ellusionist, 15 years ago. Without E, I don't think my interest in magic would've taken me to this point in time. You can disagree with their marketing ploy if you want- it is effective as a business model. I can see owners of past PT manuscripts such as midas touch being irked- but it seems re-releasing past works is a commonplace practice in magic and mentalism nowadays. Whilst I own some of PTs material I'm interested in this project to see him breakdown some of this material in complete layperson's terms, and I for one welcome this new project.
RCarruth
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On Sep 8, 2021, Magic__Ian wrote:

He doesn't care. He saw how his employers marketed the last box of tat, and was happy to take the money and do another one.

He knows the audience is teenagers. He knows the marketing is all lies. But, he has a mortgage and kids to pay for. So he couldn't give two hoots about their disappointment, so long as he gets paid.


I'm assuming you both bought this product and are acquainted with him?? If so.. review it. If not.. a little restraint would be more appropriate.
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Markymark
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I thought having ads pop up on reddit for that silly flame thrower thing they put out was quite desperate and different from other magic companies.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Well that is very true Saturn.I'm not sure what the word is for seeing a bad performance of the beautiful P.K touchs but it is not pretty!
I'm sure a lot of us have seen that moment where the spectator contradicts the mentalist in exactly where they were touched..
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
The Unmasked Magician
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On Sep 9, 2021, saturnkk wrote:

So correct here. My list of HORRIFIC things this past year:

1. COVID
2. Climate change and crazy weather (fires and power outages)
3. Over-hyped Magic products for sale
4. Taliban reemergence
5. Red and Blue people not playing nicely

Clearly not the worst thing but definitely top 5...


Seriously?! You think COVID and climate change are worse than this?! Are you one of those people that cares about things outside of magic and mentalism?! Do you talk to other people?! Do you have "social skills"?! If yes, then WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?!
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
saturnkk
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2021, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 9, 2021, saturnkk wrote:

So correct here. My list of HORRIFIC things this past year:

1. COVID
2. Climate change and crazy weather (fires and power outages)
3. Over-hyped Magic products for sale
4. Taliban reemergence
5. Red and Blue people not playing nicely

Clearly not the worst thing but definitely top 5...


WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?!


I zigged when I should have zagged?
Fromentum
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Really interesting thread.

First I want to agree that I absolutely hate the marketing and the focused buyer group. Things like "copy and paste talent" or "no showmanship required" are really the wrong mindset to advertise something that goes that deep into mentalism. And I think most people agree on that.
I personally think that this knowledge that appears to be thought there is something for experienced performers who digged their way trough to those ssecrets and that those secrets should be kept secrete and not thrown out there to beginners. On the other hand I'm also a bit envious because I had to buy a lot of bad stuff until I finally discovered good mentalism (and magic). Such a beginner set when I started would have been very helpfull. And also don't we all start somehow with some mentalism effects and don't we all suck at first. When I remember back to the first mentalism stuff I did I also butchered it and could not remotely perform it in the inteded manner. We all have to learn a lot until we can perform it in a good belivable and entertaining way.

But the personal attacks against Peter Turner here are somehow pretty rediculous. If greed would play that big of a role those items would be marketed as single download probably. What I saw when I watch all of Peter Turners past material is a guy that just wants to teach ... a lot. Greed I can not really find there. Maybe sometimes he targets the wrong audience but the material for itself is good.

Just this short Youtube Video which is free could have simply be a 10 $ Download. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TSQn9KVkGg
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