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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » How to Control Minds Kit (170 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Martin.Lester
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Any one on the fence about this Craig Petty Review (Rant) is on the money

https://youtu.be/WKlp4URTdgE
Oliver Munoz Gutierrez
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On Sep 10, 2021, Martin.Lester wrote:
Any one on the fence about this Craig Petty Review (Rant) is on the money

https://youtu.be/WKlp4URTdgE


He is on point.

But the how to read minds kit was advertised in the same way. And of course, the claims are crap and the kind of advertising is more then questionable. But in the end, you got very good value for your money. Im interested not because ellusionist is promising anything, Im interested because you get a collection of Peter Turners work.

At last, we can decide for ourself where to spend our money.
Fromentum
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Quote:
On Sep 10, 2021, Martin.Lester wrote:
Any one on the fence about this Craig Petty Review (Rant) is on the money

https://youtu.be/WKlp4URTdgE



I absolutely agree. The stuff Peter Turner puts out is good. And I also backed the project because I'm interested in the material.

But the claims are really harmfull for mentalism as an artform because it gets reduced to simple tricks anybody can learn in minutes while there is way more to it. (This is just regarding the Marketing claims).
takeachance
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Pettys review is spot on why some see this advertised as embarrassing.
It takes me back to the 60's comic book adds for "Be the life of the party" aimed squarely at socially awkward /introverted teens.
Its hard to imagine why a person of Pete Turners reputation, ability and level of professionalism would allow Ellusionist to advertise his outstanding abilities in teaching this material in this manner.
This type of advertisement hype certainly cheapens the art of mentalism. Disappointing.
Roberto W
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On Sep 11, 2021, takeachance wrote:
Pettys review is spot on why some see this advertised as embarrassing.
It takes me back to the 60's comic book adds for "Be the life of the party" aimed squarely at socially awkward /introverted teens.
Its hard to imagine why a person of Pete Turners reputation, ability and level of professionalism would allow Ellusionist to advertise his outstanding abilities in teaching this material in this manner.
This type of advertisement hype certainly cheapens the art of mentalism. Disappointing.


Agree, but I guess from a financial side it’s hard to turn do income especially with recent events. It could very well be Pete enjoys the collaboration with E and may not necessarily agree with the marketing and advertising, but has no real say in that - maybe. They have paid him for the content and then steered it how they feel best… maybe
pegasus
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On Sep 11, 2021, takeachance wrote:
Pettys review is spot on why some see this advertised as embarrassing.
It takes me back to the 60's comic book adds for "Be the life of the party" aimed squarely at socially awkward /introverted teens.
Its hard to imagine why a person of Pete Turners reputation, ability and level of professionalism would allow Ellusionist to advertise his outstanding abilities in teaching this material in this manner.
This type of advertisement hype certainly cheapens the art of mentalism. Disappointing.


Mortgage and bills.
takeachance
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I see what you are saying Roberto and pegasus, but surely he has enough leverage to have them market himself with a bit more respect to his artform that at present he has an enormous influence on.
Maybe not.
Hard to understand why Ellusionist went down that cheap and cheesy advertisement route. I mean, really cheesy for such a high level performer they are working with.
Hey Brad, if you read this, sack your advertising advisor LOL.
And let me be clear, I think Ellusionist are being disrespectful to Peter Turner.
Fromentum
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I think you can really see the different between companies like Vansihing inc an Ellusionist.

Vanishing Inc. does a really respectfull a nice version of The Devil's Picturebook and focuses solely on magicians. While they theoretically could use the name to reach a way bigger audience they decided to do what is best for the community.

Ellusionist on the other hand goes full target on laymen who never did any magic/mentalism before which would been fine if it would be the normal magic trickster stuff they put out before as Beginner/Starter Sets. But with the concepts included here that's very wrong. They really don't consider the impact onto the community and probably don't care. (At least Brad doesn't)
Scott
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One point stood out for me in Craig's Rant, the word Trivialize.

I've said many times before, Magic has been trivialized by magicians for years almost to the point of no return, and Mentalism is slowly but surely heading in the same direction.

I'm honestly quite shocked that Pete Turner has agreed to allow material that he's spent half his life mastering, to be marketed this way.

But it will sell well.

A wiser man than me once said. "When everyone's super, no one will be". Smile
Scott Creasey - Mind Reader

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Oliver Munoz Gutierrez
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On Sep 11, 2021, Scott wrote:
One point stood out for me in Craig's Rant, the word Trivialize.

I've said many times before, Magic has been trivialized by magicians for years almost to the point of no return, and Mentalism is slowly but surely heading in the same direction.


This statement is just sad. Especially from a professionell performer, I guess?
Your audience should proof you wrong.
Greg Arce
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On Sep 11, 2021, Oliver Munoz Gutierrez wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2021, Scott wrote:
One point stood out for me in Craig's Rant, the word Trivialize.

I've said many times before, Magic has been trivialized by magicians for years almost to the point of no return, and Mentalism is slowly but surely heading in the same direction.


This statement is just sad. Especially from a professionell performer, I guess?
Your audience should proof you wrong.


I fully agree with Scott. I stopped going to the Magic Castle years ago. Around 10 years ago I took some friends in. I went into the impromptu rooms to watch. This is what I saw: a guy doing a mentalism set followed by another guy doing a mentalism set then another then a guy did some cards & coins followed by another guy doing a mentalism set then another guy mentalism set... and so on and so on. That night I must have seen 4 or 5 guys using the same electronic dice, a few guys using the same electronic pads and a half dozen sneak thief presentations. I told some I know they should change the name to The Mentalism Castle.

Every magician I knew when I first moved to Hollywood in 2000 is now either a mentalist or gives their client a choice of a magic show or a mind reading show. I'm out. I've always been the type that when everyone is into something I get out. Never wanted to be a lemming.

Anyway, that's my experience with it all.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
gassaox
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At the end of the day if Peter wants to give away some of his techniques and advice to ellusionist for a bit poke (money ) so be it ,this guy is a legend what he does ,the more young people or older people hear about this guy ,the bigger legend he will become ,the way he thinks and delivers it into practical uses is amazing 👍
Scott
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On Sep 11, 2021, Greg Arce wrote:
I'm out. I've always been the type that when everyone is into something I get out. Never wanted to be a lemming.

Anyway, that's my experience with it all.

Greg


Yep me to.

Still enjoy magic (to some extent) and love mentalism but what I perform professionally today doesn't resemble anything I was doing ten years ago or that anybody else I know personally is doing today and because of that it's unlikely I'll be sharing it (it's taken a long time to get right), or even that anybody within the magic and mentalism fraternities would actually be interested in it.

As for Peter's material, he can of course do what he likes with it and good luck to him, it just saddens me (a bit, I'm not going to lose sleep over it) to see top class material marketed to everybody and anybody through a kickstarter scheme.

Just an opinion that's all, it really won't make any difference to the world in general so I'll leave it there.

Cheers
Scott Creasey - Mind Reader

Original Routines With A Mental Flavour

http://www.mentalmagicism.com/
takeachance
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No one is disputing Peter Turner has the right to sell his expertise gassaox, or the fact he is at the top of his game. The man is certainly a phenomena.
The issue here is how his material is being marketed by Ellusionist. Go and read the add blurb again, it's so cheesy it's degrading both the art of mentalism and the quality of Turner.
SoloDoubleAct
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It's mind boggling to me how such well-reviewed material is being "hidden" inside this cringy box. I can't decide if I love how mad it is irrationally making folks or hate how dirty I feel for backing this.

Excited to learn Midas Touch either way!!
martyjacobs
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Responses direct from the horse's mouth:



Whatever you think about Pete, you should appreciate his honest answers to many of the questions raised in this thread. As a close-up magician, I'm really looking forward to learning from this kit.

If you still want to back this project, you only have a few minutes to do so!

Marty
takeachance
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Was hoping he'd give his thoughts on the standard of how this was advertised.
SoloDoubleAct
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I'm a little jealous about the quality of the material being ostensibly taught to absolute neophytes based on the ad-copy! A lot of this is on his other (OOP!) projects and, unless he got worse at doing/teaching the material, it is some really good stuff for a newbie!
bpearce
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On Sep 14, 2021, martyjacobs wrote:
I think we're a little harsh on Pete and Ellusionist here. Granted, I backed this despite the terrible ad copy, but E has always been guilty of hyperbole (almost to the level of self-parody). This type of behaviour shouldn't come as a surprise. I supported this on Kickstarter because I saw Pete lecture years ago, and most of his material (and thinking) does live up to the hype. He's also a nice guy who cares about what he does. I also complained to E about the misleading marketing.

Maybe getting into bed with E shows a lack of judgement. However, I'm pleased that beginners will access high-quality material and learn to control minds. This is a good thing for mentalism.

I do have to laugh at some professional mentalists. They steal secrets from magicians and charge ten times the asking price for this "new" knowledge. So I'm glad to see some modern mentalism offered at a more sensible price point for hobbyists.

I also wouldn't consider a Kickstarter campaign mainstream. It caters to niche markets, not the general public. Most of my friends have never backed a campaign.

Marty



You’re spot on! E has used this type of hyperbole for years! I’ve seen multiple Facebook ads from E, marketing various products and generally the Facebook ads are geared towards layman. Honestly though How To Control Minds probably should have been a download or multiple separate downloads. The physical products you get with the kit are a pen, brass dice, some billets and a deck of playing cards. While I could in theory understand they might want people to start performing right away, it doesn’t feel necessary to have had this on Kickstarter. Not saying the material taught isn’t valuable, but the physical products are kind of underwhelming. It’s a safe bet to say most magicians have dice, a pen and a deck of cards. If not, those items could easily be purchased from a drugstore. So it’s a little unclear why E felt they needed help funding this release 🤷🏻‍♂️
There will always be someone better at some things than you are. There will always be someone worse at some things than you are. All you can really do in the end, is aim to be better than you were yesterday.
bpearce
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On Sep 15, 2021, takeachance wrote:
Was hoping he'd give his thoughts on the standard of how this was advertised.



Even if he disagreed with how it was advertised/ marketed, it would be unwise for him to say so as he’s currently employed by them. Thought it would be interesting to hear his (honest) opinion/take on how all of this was handled. It also makes me wonder much control anyone who releases a product through E, has over their own material and how it’s handled 🤔
There will always be someone better at some things than you are. There will always be someone worse at some things than you are. All you can really do in the end, is aim to be better than you were yesterday.
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