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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ How to Control Minds Kit (170 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chaz93
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This marketing is trivializing the art. I'm not fond of it.
Roberto W
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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2021, bpearce wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2021, martyjacobs wrote:
I think we're a little harsh on Pete and Ellusionist here. Granted, I backed this despite the terrible ad copy, but E has always been guilty of hyperbole (almost to the level of self-parody). This type of behaviour shouldn't come as a surprise. I supported this on Kickstarter because I saw Pete lecture years ago, and most of his material (and thinking) does live up to the hype. He's also a nice guy who cares about what he does. I also complained to E about the misleading marketing.

Maybe getting into bed with E shows a lack of judgement. However, I'm pleased that beginners will access high-quality material and learn to control minds. This is a good thing for mentalism.

I do have to laugh at some professional mentalists. They steal secrets from magicians and charge ten times the asking price for this "new" knowledge. So I'm glad to see some modern mentalism offered at a more sensible price point for hobbyists.

I also wouldn't consider a Kickstarter campaign mainstream. It caters to niche markets, not the general public. Most of my friends have never backed a campaign.

Marty



Youíre spot on! E has used this type of hyperbole for years! Iíve seen multiple Facebook ads from E, marketing various products and generally the Facebook ads are geared towards layman. Honestly though How To Control Minds probably should have been a download or multiple separate downloads. The physical products you get with the kit are a pen, brass dice, some billets and a deck of playing cards. While I could in theory understand they might want people to start performing right away, it doesnít feel necessary to have had this on Kickstarter. Not saying the material taught isnít valuable, but the physical products are kind of underwhelming. Itís a safe bet to say most magicians have dice, a pen and a deck of cards. If not, those items could easily be purchased from a drugstore. So itís a little unclear why E felt they needed help funding this release 🤷🏻‍♂️


I get your point about a download etc but you have in a way answered your own question asking why the need to have a kit that included a pen, cards etcÖ itís because this is also pushed sadly for the public and lay people to buy. Lay people wonít have these physical props ready available so if they know it already comes in this Ďmagic kití itís more of an appeal for them to buy it if one intrigued by the content as strong as it looks and 2 it comes with props to perform with. This is their equal aim to get on board new customers to sell to.

Plus heís not going to go on that live and slate his boss is he regardless what he thinks so his comments about his thoughts on a kit/download was understandably diplomatic
Maxy
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I remember before few years when E Pure Smoke released, some technical websites talked about it, and exposed its mechanics with pictures and link to E website.
Another examples:
https://www.engadget.com/2015-11-17-pyro......ers.html
https://www.engadget.com/2014-12-11-pyro......and.html
https://gizmodo.com/this-tiny-discreet-f......43533439
bpearce
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2021, Roberto W wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2021, bpearce wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2021, martyjacobs wrote:
I think we're a little harsh on Pete and Ellusionist here. Granted, I backed this despite the terrible ad copy, but E has always been guilty of hyperbole (almost to the level of self-parody). This type of behaviour shouldn't come as a surprise. I supported this on Kickstarter because I saw Pete lecture years ago, and most of his material (and thinking) does live up to the hype. He's also a nice guy who cares about what he does. I also complained to E about the misleading marketing.

Maybe getting into bed with E shows a lack of judgement. However, I'm pleased that beginners will access high-quality material and learn to control minds. This is a good thing for mentalism.

I do have to laugh at some professional mentalists. They steal secrets from magicians and charge ten times the asking price for this "new" knowledge. So I'm glad to see some modern mentalism offered at a more sensible price point for hobbyists.

I also wouldn't consider a Kickstarter campaign mainstream. It caters to niche markets, not the general public. Most of my friends have never backed a campaign.

Marty



Youíre spot on! E has used this type of hyperbole for years! Iíve seen multiple Facebook ads from E, marketing various products and generally the Facebook ads are geared towards layman. Honestly though How To Control Minds probably should have been a download or multiple separate downloads. The physical products you get with the kit are a pen, brass dice, some billets and a deck of playing cards. While I could in theory understand they might want people to start performing right away, it doesnít feel necessary to have had this on Kickstarter. Not saying the material taught isnít valuable, but the physical products are kind of underwhelming. Itís a safe bet to say most magicians have dice, a pen and a deck of cards. If not, those items could easily be purchased from a drugstore. So itís a little unclear why E felt they needed help funding this release 🤷🏻‍♂️


I get your point about a download etc but you have in a way answered your own question asking why the need to have a kit that included a pen, cards etcÖ itís because this is also pushed sadly for the public and lay people to buy. Lay people wonít have these physical props ready available so if they know it already comes in this Ďmagic kití itís more of an appeal for them to buy it if one intrigued by the content as strong as it looks and 2 it comes with props to perform with. This is their equal aim to get on board new customers to sell to.

Plus heís not going to go on that live and slate his boss is he regardless what he thinks so his comments about his thoughts on a kit/download was understandably diplomatic



I somewhat disagree though, I have layman friends who are more than well aware you can pick up dice and a pack of cards easily from a drug store. As for your comment about Peter Turner not saying anything negative about his boss, I previously said pretty much what you said in a previous comment. Unless your intent was to agree with and just restate that (if so thanks I guess??), Iíd say you didnít read that comment thoroughly though, because no kidding he canít slay off his boss on a live thatís dumb. Obviously when I mentioned him giving his honest opinion, the implication was when was no longer working there.
There will always be someone better at some things than you are. There will always be someone worse at some things than you are. All you can really do in the end, is aim to be better than you were yesterday.
bpearce
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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2021, bpearce wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2021, takeachance wrote:
Was hoping he'd give his thoughts on the standard of how this was advertised.



Even if he disagreed with how it was advertised/ marketed, it would be unwise for him to say so as heís currently employed by them. Thought it would be interesting to hear his (honest) opinion/take on how all of this was handled. It also makes me wonder much control anyone who releases a product through E, has over their own material and how itís handled 🤔


Again, just for clarity. I literally said it would be unwise for him to talk negatively about his current employer. So really missing what your point specifically was to me about it 🤷🏻‍♂️
There will always be someone better at some things than you are. There will always be someone worse at some things than you are. All you can really do in the end, is aim to be better than you were yesterday.
takeachance
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I wasn't addressing you at all. Your comment came well after mine. It was a comment after Marty posted Peters reply. Smile And I agree with you.
252life
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Just watched Peteís Q&A that was posted and think he did a great job stating his thoughts on this project.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
martyjacobs
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I also thought he did a good job at addressing the negative comments. The fact that he didn't mention the marketing is understandable. I don't always agree with everything my employer does, but it would be unprofessional of me to publicly criticise them. However, what Pete can do is highlight the feedback related to the ad copy and have a private conversation with "The Captain" about how to avoid misleading marketing in the future.

As I have already mentioned, I think Pete and E deserve some criticism for the way this product has been marketed. However, I don't see why the use of Kickstarter is a problem. Crowdfunding is used by all kinds of companies, both big and small, to mitigate the risk of a new product launch. Even the USPCC has used Kickstarter to launch Super Truffle Pigs, and they're a much bigger company. Kickstarter is a good way to create a buzz about a new product and find new customers. You can hardly blame E for wanting to do this.

On balance, I think this kit will do much more good than harm. I'm sure it will lead to some exposure, but so does almost every magic/mentalism release. When I saw Pete lecture (I think this was around 2014) he was a passionate and thoughtful teacher. The dodgy marketing doesn't justify meanspirited personal comments about him.

As I see it, the real reward for backers is the instructional video content, the physical kit is a nice bonus. I also appreciate that I'll get a backup copy of the videos on a memory stick.

Marty
peirceman
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I just read this entire thread. I don't understand a lot of it. Everyone that pursues magic as a hobby or profession had to start somewhere. I started when I got an Adams magic kit for my birthday. When I got it, I loved it. Looking back, it was total garbage. I lost years of development because the kit didn't go into any sleights for the plastic cups and balls they provided. It just suggested to hide the extra ball in the bottom cup as all three were stacked. It didn't even teach a basic two card monte move. How is that good for magic?

Also, I'm not a Kickstarter expert, but I don't think they put a "How to control minds" backing in everyone's cart when they open the app or website. If you've never searched for magic or mentalism, and have no interest in it, why would it show up? If you are interested, wouldn't it be a good thing for someone new to magic or mentalism to get some quality material. And if people are willing to spend $150 to find out how PK touch is done, well, more power to them. I had to specifically search for "how to control minds" to even find it. Maybe because it has expired, but I don't think Kickstarter is the problem.

Also, the marketing question is interesting. What were they supposed to put on a project they hoped to sell. "This is the hardest thing you will ever do. Do not buy this unless you are willing to put in years of effort. In fact, please submit a 1,000 word essay on why you are worthy, and we will decide whether or not to sell it to you. You think being a rocket scientist is hard? That ain't crap compared to 'How to Control Minds'"

I'm sorry I missed out on this, and will buy it when it becomes available again.
Fromentum
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Anyways what I found interesting that one of the first updates after the project closed was about failed payments.

It was all about how you can fix it if your payment failed. And I really wondered why they are posting this. If somebodys payment failed kickstarter will mail them automatically. If they ignore the mail from kickstarter why should they react to a project update. The posted the backer numbers that failed payment. Why. Who checks his backing number on an update but ignores the notification from kickstarter about failed payment?


What are they trying to achive. Do they really think that the backers don't understand how to fix a payment and really need this update? Is that update ment helpfull? Are they needing the money that badly? (If 100 backers fail to pay from over 2000 I would completely ignore that and just not send them the product). Is it to make the other backers feel better that they payed.

I would be really curious about the motivation behind this update Smile
Roberto W
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Or simply just notify the people whoís payment hasnít been accepted not send a unnecessary message to everyone.
Like says above, it would be identified whoís payment didnít go through by Kickstarter so they would contact people themselves via a auto generated email/message.

Unless itís simply all innocent and E was just sending a helpful blanket message to everyone as a ďdonít worry if you receive this email, hereís what you need to do to fix itĒ as a helpful pre message so it doesnít come as a shock should people get the email.
martyjacobs
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FYI, many Kickstarter campaigns send out updates about failed payments like the one sent out by E. I don't get the conspiracy theory angle. If you don't fix it, you can lose your rewards. I saw it as a helpful reminder to stop a person from accidentally missing out because they didn't notice that there was a problem with their credit card.
Fromentum
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That's an interview!....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa6hP7XC4ME

Craig Petty (the guy who ranted about the project for half an hour) and Peter Turner.

Also if you watch it completely there is an amazing idea about a PIN Code mind reading effect that lends itself to the "Challenge Cards" concept by Watkins that I'm thinking about right now... really nice stuff!
252life
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I actually really enjoyed that interview and Craig sure didnít rush it. I appreciate how straightforward Pete was. Definitely worth a watch imo.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Sudo Nimh
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Keeping a close eye on the dice work involving a pair of dice in this project... if you catch my meaning. I'll leave it at that. For now.
The grey area is where you find the complexity, the truth, and the humanity.
252life
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Quote:
On Sep 26, 2021, Sudo Nimh wrote:
Keeping a close eye on the dice work involving a pair of dice in this project... if you catch my meaning. I'll leave it at that. For now.



got ya
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
rtp8957
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Turner is a marketing genius no doubt, as far as products, not so much. Same for customer service. he beat me out of a twenty dollar "13" ball cap, a year ago, after promising me "he had it with him", no cap, just crickets. he is just like Daniel Madison from E, couldn't hack it performing, now selling the same decks/effects over and over and over
dirtyfoucault
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E are the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to the magic world. No thought for the ethics or morality of maintaining the secrecy and art at the heart of our profession, just a load of tattoed morons trying to make a fast buck out of young people's gullibility.

I emailed them to voice my concerns about the How to Control Minds Kit, covering many of the points raised in this forum. Without responding, they re-wrote and twisited my email to their own marketing ends and shared it with their entire mailing list/ Didn't bother asking my permission or anything, like anyone with a shred of decency might do. No. It was all about them and making their dumb product look good. Who cares about customers/data privacy/ethics anyway?

The fact Pete Turner seems like a great guy is by the way. They better be paying him well to compensate for the ongoing damage the association is doing to his reputation.

I'll boycott E from now on, which isn't saying much as the majority of their back catalogue is teen-oriented crusty dog defecation.
Morganjj
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Undeniably ****ty behaviour to share private correspondence without permission, regardless of what they do with it.
dirtyfoucault
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2021, Morganjj wrote:
Undeniably ****ty behaviour to share private correspondence without permission, regardless of what they do with it.


Thanks, I thought so. I raised this with them and they just ignored me. Finally somebody responded on social media along the lines of ďso what? We didnít break the law so we can do what we like with your private correspondenceĒ. Technically theyíre probably right. Itís the utter lack of respect for customers that boggles the mind.

Who buys their hack s*?t anyway?
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