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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Deckless! » » Are the Color Monte instructions really this bad? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nikodemus
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Recently I have become interested in exploring different handlings and/or presentations for Color Monte.

I have just watched about 15 virtually identical demonstrations on YouTube. I lost my own copy of the official instructions many years ago, so can someone tell me whether these performances are all following the official instructions, or have they maybe all copied each other?

Here's a typical example -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQjKrHFut38

Specifically, do the official instructions really contain the line "Maybe it's on the top" as the performer out-jogs the middle card ????

Just to be clear - I know exactly what the method is. My question is about what seems to be absolutely dreadful scripting.
Or maybe the instructions don't suggest any patter at all, and just describe the mechanics?
NicholasD25
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When I purchased this in the early ‘70’s, the instructions were printed on a folded card. There was no elaborate patter story, just explanatory statements of what was being done with the cards. There’s not a lot of room to get fancy with the patter or change it very much do to the nature of the trick. So, most performances tend to be pretty much the same. As to your question, looks like he didn’t get the patter just right. In addition, instead of “it’ll cost you”, he should say “you owe me”, it makes the trick flow better. Just my opinions.
In addition, I hate that alignment move. There are much better ways to show three of the same card.
GlennLawrence
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Youtube, while certainly having some very good magic content, unfortunately has more than its fair share of "performers" taking perfectly good magic and ruining it. I haven't seen the videos in question but I can tell you this much. This is one of the few effects where you can learn it verbatim from the instructions, using the patter they give you, and have a great effect without having to change anything. Having said that, I've changed a couple of minor things over the years in the way I do it. I know magicians are always complaining about the alignment move but I can assure you it's not a problem. Another example of magicians feeling the need to run while not being chased! So to answer your question, No the instructions are not that bad. Initially I performed it exactly as per the instructions and patter, and even then it went over well. Your mileage may vary!
Nikodemus
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Thanks both for your replies.

GlennLawrence, you say that your version of the instructions does include patter. I would really appreciate it if you could answer my specific question about that one line as you execute the Alignment Move???
Wravyn
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If my memory is correct, a glide was the suggested sleight. It was from this trick that I learned about it.
With using the glide, after showing the bottom card, it gives the turning over of the top card the appearance of just that, a turning over of the top card. Though accomplishing the same outcome, the out-jog, to me, looks like a move.
Nikodemus
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Hi Wravyn,
That's really interesting! Maybe the instructions have changed over the years. [Or maybe CM appears to people in different form - like a spirit from another world???]

Anyway, I have realised my original post was not as clear as I thought it was. So permit me to elaborate...

1. I have read a lot of discussion on the Café about the dreaded Alignment Move in CM. Some talk about how to replace the move, some how to disguise it, some how to justify it. And of course there are some who think it's not a problem in the first place. Often these discussions mention the "original instructions" - but don't quote what those instructions say. (As previously mentioned I am concerned here with the patter, not the method. So there should be no concern about "exposure" in discussing patter).

2. It seems to me the move can be legitimised very easily by saying "Since it wasn't on the bottom, it had to be in the middle or on the top. I chose the top"

3. But the majority of demo's I see do NOT include that simple line. They just say "It wasn't on the bottom. Maybe it was on top". With this patter it makes NO sense to out-jog the middle card prior to turning over the top one.

4. Hence my question, about whether the instructions actually include patter at all. And if so, what is the recommended line as you do the Alignment Move.


I've got a feeling you might be right about the Glide - it seems to ring a bell with me. In that case, the handling of the "top" card, would be a standard DL -so it would be ok to say "maybe it was on top".
Adding the Alignment Move allows a cleaner reveal of the bottom card - but changes the handling of the top card. It's quite easy to imagine the old patter being used with a newer handling, and no longer making sense!
Wravyn
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Yes, E&W did include the patter on the instructions, though I do not have them anymore and demoing at a brick and mortar, from my memory;
'...Well, it's easy, you placed it on the bottom.
You owe me a dollar.
Well, if it isn't on the bottom, it has to be on the top. (do the glide to show top card)
You owe me a dollar.
So if it wasn't on the bottom and it isn't on the top, it has to be in the middle.
You owe me a dollar..."
GlennLawrence
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Wravyn is correct and that is close to the patter in the instructions. Specifically the line as you do the alignment move after you've shown the bottom card is "Well if it's not on the bottom there's a 50/50 chance it's on the top."

Hope that helps!
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Dec 1, 2021, GlennLawrence wrote:
Wravyn is correct and that is close to the patter in the instructions. Specifically the line as you do the alignment move after you've shown the bottom card is "Well if it's not on the bottom there's a 50/50 chance it's on the top."

Hope that helps!


That certainly does help!
That line makes much more sense. [Although I would strengthen it slightly by explicitly mentioning the middle card as you out-jog it - "Well if it's not on the bottom, it has to be in the middle or on the top".]

So you are saying all those performers do NOT adhere to the recommended patter.
ThomasJ
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In the effect Quick Three-Way My Way from Wesley James' Enchantments, he uses Marlo's Quick Three Way (the move) in the effect. His patter during the alignment is, "Of course, you could have touched the top card, or middle card..."

Color Monte was one of my first packet tricks, so I'm not sure if the "sucker" card changed over the years. Mine had a green caricature-looking guy smoking a cigar and a $14 on it. As Wravyn mentioned, the patter was to the effect of telling a three card monte story and how you owed money when you guessed wrong. All the wrong guesses add up to $14 by the end of the effect when the card is revealed. I'll have to check, but there is a good chance I still have the instructions somewhere. Will have to report back.

On an unrelated note, I'd never perform CM as an effect on it's own. It was valuable in learning Marlo's Quick Three Way sequence (before I even knew who Marlo was), but nowadays I would only use the move as a sleight within a larger routine - Universal Card is the first that comes to mind.

Regards,
T.J.
Bob G
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1. For another alternative to the Christ-Anneman alignment move (which I think is the same as Marlo's three-way move??), see Paul Wilson's Gypsy monte. He describes a natural-looking false display that's essentially just a sequence of double lifts done with some deceptive touches. Here's one place where you can watch him explain it:

https://www.mymagic.com/l/digital-video/......l-wilson . Penguin also has it as a single-trick download.


2. I'm intrigued by the idea of using the Glide. Can someone describe how this works? After gliding with one hand, do you raise your other palm to face the audience and show two cards as one??

Bob
Nikodemus
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Hi Bob,
1. Thanks for mentioning R Paul Wilson's Gipsy Monte. I think it's a really nice handling, and an interesting storyline. Unfortunately due to my dry hands, my push-off is unreliable (despite the fact that it is supposed to be "easy" with just 3 cards). So I struggle to do the count convincingly, because it requires several DL's in succession.

2. Not sure what you mean by "gliding with one hand". I understand it to require two hands. Left hand holds the deck (or packet in this case) from above. Right hand apparently removes bottom card from face-down packet, and shows it.
In the case of this Monte trick, you would then presumably replace that card exactly where it came from.
Your right hand would then apparently show the top card (and replace it)
Finally you would spread the packet, and right hand remove the middle card & show it.

I don't like this handling. I think the Glide is a very unnatural way to show the bottom card. It works ok in some situations (eg if the presentation involves dealing a card off the bottom and not showing it). But it seems weird as a way to reveal the bottom card.

3. I have devised a slight variation of the Alignment Move that I think will attract less attention than the usual sliding action. (And easier with dry hands!)
Nevertheless, I would only use it once in a routine rather than twice, as in Color Monte.

Nick

PS. Just to make life confusing, there seem to be two tricks called Gipsy Monte, using different methods! If you search on YouTube you will find demos of both.
Bob G
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Thanks, Nick,

Yikes! (If I may use the expression.) Maybe you or someone else could PM me about how the glide would be used here? I may end up agreeing that it's unnatural, but I'd like to try it for myself.

I have very dry hands too, especially in the winter. I've found that hand lotions make a *huge* difference. Eucerin and Sortquick are my favorites at the moment. I bought a little zipper bag intended for carrying hard-drives or something, and it's perfect for carrying a deck of cards, a few coins, and a few packet tricks. I also carry a very small screw-top jar, about an inch wide and a quarter of an inch high, into which I transfer small quantities of lotion. It's good for the jar to have a wide mouth so that you can easily fill it from a larger container.


FWIW...
Nikodemus
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Have pm'd you, Bob
Bob G
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Got it -- thanks, Nick.
jim ferguson
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Usually with the Glide, the bottom card is shown at the outset. So the card isn't taken then shown - it is shown first, then taken.
The display of the card is done while it's on the bottom of the deck/packet.



Jim
Bob G
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And I think, Jim, your point is that the usual way is more natural than the glide would be in CM: it might look weird to spectators if you pulled out the "bottom" card to show it when you could more easily have just raised the whole packet and displayed the bottom card.
timph
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I've got the original E&W instructions which include the patter.

Love the trick but hate the dreaded clunky move - can anyone point me in the direction of a better alternative *apologies for the noob question*
Bob G
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Welcome to the Café, timph. See above.

Bob
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Dec 19, 2021, timph wrote:
I've got the original E&W instructions which include the patter.

Love the trick but hate the dreaded clunky move - can anyone point me in the direction of a better alternative *apologies for the noob question*



Sorry for the long delay.

As I mentioned in my original post, the move IS awfully clunky if you just say "if it wasn't on the bottom, it must be on the top"; whereas the move is justified if you say "... it must be on top or in the middle".
To me this is blindingly obvious - hence my question about what the instructions actually say.
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