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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Trojan deck - Joshua Jay (23 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Waterloophai
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Joshua Jay has launched his "Trojan deck".
Also useful for memdeck workers.
You can see a full performance at:
https://www.facebook.com/magicianjoshuaj......9789900/
(you can skip the first 09.34 minutes)

Item is for sale here:
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/trojan-deck/
Waterloophai
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About the Trojan deck:
People (like me) who live in the EU, can order it here too:
https://www.card-shark.de/index.cfm?page......rtID=467


Another performance (less impressive than the one on facebook):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3WduUc9ui4
TomB
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I think $75 is really high price. He states in the ad there is no cooler used. Sometimes the best method is the ones not used in new tricks.

I also think his patter is not polished. He attempts to have a story about destiny but it falls flat. Destiny story telling should raise the hair on the back of your neck.

He is just cashing in on his popularity. There will be some initial fan base, then quickly forgotten.

The rest of us can perform this trick with items we already have. That's my cents.
andygregs
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It’s on his penguin lecture 2 & personally I think it’s very expensive for what it is
JanForster
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To be honest... I have a bit mixed feelings... it is made for this specific routine and does its job very well (it is not a switch! It is a sort of "add on" of thin cards...). The routine is great, but I personal do not see it as a very useful tool (as advertised...) as you end up with a deck which a spectator can't handle anymore... Jan
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Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Nov 28, 2021, JanForster wrote:
To be honest... I have a bit mixed feelings... it is made for this specific routine and does its job very well (it is not a switch! It is a sort of "add on" of thin cards...). The routine is great, but I personal do not see it as a very useful tool (as advertised...) as you end up with a deck which a spectator can't handle anymore... Jan

Agree, but I think there is a possible solution. Sent a PM.
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Nov 28, 2021, andygregs wrote:
It’s on his penguin lecture 2 & personally I think it’s very expensive for what it is

The price of a magic trick is largely determined by the material and "the secret".
Under normal circumstances, this price would not be excessive (I think).
Since Josh himself already revealed the secret in a lecture four years ago, I can follow you somewhat.
He used the same "tactic" with his "balance" trick if I'm not mistaken.
JanForster
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Quote:
On Nov 28, 2021, Waterloophai wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 28, 2021, JanForster wrote:
To be honest... I have a bit mixed feelings... it is made for this specific routine and does its job very well (it is not a switch! It is a sort of "add on" of thin cards...). The routine is great, but I personal do not see it as a very useful tool (as advertised...) as you end up with a deck which a spectator can't handle anymore... Jan

Agree, but I think there is a possible solution. Sent a PM.


I fear it is not Smile ... PM sent Smile ... Jan
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Claudio
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As I have not bought the Trojan Deck, I’m going out on a limb here, but it looks dubious that you could use the gimmick more than once in the same performance (though you could use two gimmicks for two different effects). It also leaves you with a ‘dirty’ deck. But as most performers would use this effect as a closer it’s not an issue. But should you want to follow up, I don’t see any difficulty in switching the deck with a clean one. Presumably the deck originally handled by the performer is clean anyway, so it could be stacked and used for subsequent effects and the other one put away.

There are other methods out there that allow you to accomplish the same effect, but all the ones I’ve watched on YouTube are not ‘video resistant’ and the supposedly secret actions are usually plainly exposed, unless the video has been edited, and it’s also possible that you won’t fool all your live audience.

If performed correctly, the Trojan Deck uses a method which is hardly detectable either by a live audience or on video – though, obviously, it can be sussed out. It might a factor in deciding whether to purchase the trick.

If I were making a living out of magic or performed frequently, I’d have no hesitation in buying this. As I am not, I won’t and will keep using my current method that costs very much less and has served me well.
JanForster
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That's correct, you could continue with the deck shuffled by the performer only. Okay, it is not shuffled by the spectator, but something you can handle and overplay... But I would have enough alternatives doing a complete and undetectable switch, even reduplicating the given effect. think about it, if you do the final sequence first (the two matching cards), you would create also a wonderful time delay between something you have done before...

BTW, if you own Roberto Giobbi's "Card College", look up Vol. 4 page 868 ff. ("The Trojan Deck"), based on an idea of Carlhorst Meier (Nuremberg) whom I adore. It is a very strong routine with two decks and an easy switch, which is absolutely undetectable! And seemingly you use later the deck shuffled by the spectator. I've used it quite often many years ago. Jan
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Claudio
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Yes, the Carlhorst Meier deck switch is elegant and simple. I actually have a very slightly modified version of this in my notes: the use of an extra blue card, a joker. And yes, it's invisible to a live audience but vulnerable to video viewing which might or not be an issue - and probably is not for the vast majority of performers.

I also like your idea of revealing the match of the two selected cards first as it might make more sense dramatically.

The version I've been performing for years is Juan Tamariz' Total Conincidence published in Sonata. Uses only two regular decks, easy to do (no deck switch or sleights) and has a tremendous impact.
MadisonH
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Joshua Jay discusses why he saves the reveal of the selected cards for last instead of first. He has thought about everything with this release.

Madison
TomB
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I would just agree to disagree with his logic.

Read Designing Miracles and then revisit this trick. I believe you will come to the same conclusion that some of us have. He has an inferior switch that leads him to scramble. Even his selected card to pocket is ruined by going to the pocket. He has a marked deck, so it's completely flawed. The miracles should get better in each phase.
MadisonH
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Looking at it from the outside, I would agree with your assessment. In fact, that was one of the first thoughts I had myself.

However, Joshua’s 1,000 performances should be the ultimate deciding factor as we are all just sitting and thinking while he has gone out and done it. I’m sure he has tried it both ways.

Madison
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Nov 28, 2021, MadisonH wrote:
However, Joshua’s 1,000 performances should be the ultimate deciding factor as we are all just sitting and thinking while he has gone out and done it. I’m sure he has tried it both ways.
Madison

That it should be “the ultimate deciding factor” is perhaps a bit too drastic.
But his experience in the real world, as you write, does prove that it is not a naive or stupid choice.
Joshua is not stupid. If he keeps doing it that way, it's because it works for him.
But it remains a choice.
To do it only after the shuffling or not at all, remains also a legitimate choice given the arguments cited in the above posts.
Everyone will have to draw their own conclusions. But only after the experiences gained in the real world and not from a purely theoretical point of view, as Madison rightly points out.
Nick-V.
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It’s a great effect. Ideal in an outcome with two decks of cards.... The trick is to dissolve the spectator’s curiosity to examine your deck. If anyone can pull that off 100 percent of the time then you got yourself a miracle.
Peace on the Magical Streets
~Nick V.~
andygregs
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There’s always someone with eagle eyes that will spot the middle section doesn’t match.
EndersGame
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Joshua Jay also performed this on Masters of Illusion a couple of years ago:

CSMTREE
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Joshua Jay is a true worker and his products are of the highest quality. I purchased the Trojan deck and I absolutely love it. In my opinion it's not just the prop or the secret, it's all of it. The quality instruction, the variations, the thought through routine, the fact that it's been road tested in hundreds of performances, etc. Well worth my money....Just my two cents
"Freedom is the best Magic of all"
andygregs
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Agreed he is a great magician but also as a magician we see things differently and I’m not convinced that an eagle eyed spectator wouldn’t spot the middle cards didn’t match but each to their own.
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