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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » All Johnson Chop Cup Owners... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

geemack
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Greg McNeil Peoria,Illinois
294 Posts

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A month ago I got a new Johnson Chop Cup from a well known magic dealer who also manufactures his own line of quality brass items. This particular Johnson Chop Cup had a manufacturing flaw, so I sent it back to the dealer. In some very frustrating exchanges of email with the dealer he keeps saying he can't see a difference between my returned cup and another cup he has in stock. This DOES NOT tell me whether he sees the flaw, or whether the cup he's comparing it to also has the flaw. I called the dealer today and got the same non-answer. After almost a month of getting no straight answer from the dealer I figure it's time to find out for myself.

Everyone who owns a brass Johnson Chop Cup please go get it and come back to your computer... Take your time... I'll wait.

Okay, the flaw in the cup is a small step, or ridge, one inch up from the bottom, and going around the entire circumference on the outside of the cup. This flaw might be seen as a minute change in the direction of the curve of the wall. It is -exactly- one inch from the bottom. It will be hard to see especially on a brand new shiny cup, but should be slightly more obvious on one that has developed some tarnish. Those with an extremely discerning sense of touch should be able to feel this transition, or step, if they run their fingernail along the side of the cup from the bottom edge to the first bead. A normal, not-Chop Johnson cup makes a 100% smooth curve from the bottom of the cup to the bead.

I own six other Johnson brass cups, two sets of their "Gold" Cups and Balls cups. The flaw in the Chop Cup is very minute, but does not appear at all on any of these other six cups. If this Chop Cup were used as part of a "combo" set, the tiny ridge would be continuously worn from contact with the other cups sliding over it. That would eventually make it appear different since the two plain cups wouldn't show a worn line an inch from the bottom, and the Chop Cup would. In my opinion it would make all the advertising about the Johnson Chop Cups incorrect, since all the ads everywhere say this Chop Cup is a "perfect" match to their regular brass cups.

I'm sure I could mix this Chop Cup in with the other six and pick it out blindfolded by running my fingernail along the sides of the cups. So what do you find? Inspect yours as closely as you possibly can. Concentrate on an area one inch up from the bottom edge. Is there any ridge, line, step, or deviation at all in the smooth curvature of the outside of the cup?

I'd like to describe the results of this "survey" to the dealer so I can press him for a straight answer and get him to send me another cup without the flaw. In almost four weeks since I bought it I still don't have the cup back, nor do I have a clue where I stand. Thanks for your help!

Greg
Chance Wolf
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Greg,
I can understand your concern but it seems a bit anal retentive. I would put it to the test in front of a trusted friend, tell him that there is a discrepency in a paticular set of cups but NOT what it is. Perform the routine as many times as you like, in a NORMAL presentation, and I would be pretty darn sure he would never see what you are describing.
I run right into the beaded area when I measure up 1" on my Johnson cups. Not sure how the discrepency can be in that area.
I am not trying to diminish the importance of your point but there is a level of acceptance to manufacturing even at higher prices.
Another note, it seems the more tarnished and used the cup becomes, the more it would HIDE the minor flaw as the tarnishing is so random in pattern and density.
Just my goofy opinion Smile
Take care,
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
geemack
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Greg McNeil Peoria,Illinois
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Thanks for your reply Chance. I might not have been too clear on the "one inch up". I guess we think of cups mouth down. I mean one inch from the bottom, opposite the mouth. After some amount of use the ridge at this position will show wear that will appear as a polished ring around that particular cup. In many cup routines it doesn't matter if the cups look different, but in many routines it is important that there are no obvious differences which would make it easy for the spectators to identify a particular cup.

Your comments are sound, but using the cup for some amount of time to see how the problem develops will eliminate my option of returning it. It really is a flaw not just a variance in manufacturing. I'd just like to see if it's unique or a common flaw. It's Johnson's so I doubt it's common.

Greg
Bill Palmer
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Greg:

You should write a letter to Johnson Products about this. Bypass the dealer. The dealer obviously can't see the problem. If such a ridge exists on more than one cup, then it means that there is a glitch in their CNC program, and they need to be made aware of it.

I have an old set that has no such ridge, but I don't have a chop cup, so I don't know whether this is a glitch or an "undocumented feature."
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Chance Wolf
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Greg,
Bill is right and I must agree that it IS a problem and we all expect Johnson products to be of the highest quality. As I thought about this for awhile..I realized that I would pipe-up and do some asking as well if I were in your shoes.
I recommend Bill's suggestion as well. Heck, I would be surprised if they didn't send you a free replacemnet cup.
Take care,
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Mitch Schneiter
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West Linn, Oregon
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Greg -
Just took a look at my Johnson chop cup. I do not detect any flaws in the area you mention nor anywhere else on the cup. It looks just like my Johnson cups.
Pete Biro
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My set is all the same, three reg, 1 chop... no ridge. My set is a pre-production one, but that should not make any difference.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
geemack
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Greg McNeil Peoria,Illinois
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Thanks for all your replies...

This morning I called Johnson Products about the issue. Of course they were concerned that one of their Chop Cups might be floating around out there with a manufacturing flaw. They asked that I contact the dealer to retrieve the cup and forward it along to Johnson's.

I phoned the dealer to let them know that Johnson wants the cup back. Apparently before my call the dealer had (finally) taken a good close look at the Chop Cup. They acknowledged that it does indeed have the flaw as described. They double checked another cup in their stock, found it to be without any such glitch, and indicated they are shipping it out to me today. They also said they will be immediately returning the flawed one to Johnson.

I guess this goes to show that an error can slip through the cracks with even the best manufacturers and dealers. But it also shows a couple other things. One: We can't assume that everything we get from the quality makers and dealers will be free from errors, so we need to check the props thoroughly when we receive an order. And two: (It took a little prodding this time but...) The best dealers and manufacturers will usually do whatever it takes to resolve this sort of problem. If we support these good companies they will continue to support us.

Greg
CardiniMan
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Los Angeles
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Since the dealer came through, you might want to mention them. We don't hear many "good" dealer stories.
stilson
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I just checked my Johnson Chop Cup and it is flawless.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2004-06-23 14:00, geemack wrote:
Thanks for all your replies...

This morning I called Johnson Products about the issue. Of course they were concerned that one of their Chop Cups might be floating around out there with a manufacturing flaw. They asked that I contact the dealer to retrieve the cup and forward it along to Johnson's.

I phoned the dealer to let them know that Johnson wants the cup back. Apparently before my call the dealer had (finally) taken a good close look at the Chop Cup. They acknowledged that it does indeed have the flaw as described. They double checked another cup in their stock, found it to be without any such glitch, and indicated they are shipping it out to me today. They also said they will be immediately returning the flawed one to Johnson.

I guess this goes to show that an error can slip through the cracks with even the best manufacturers and dealers. But it also shows a couple other things. One: We can't assume that everything we get from the quality makers and dealers will be free from errors, so we need to check the props thoroughly when we receive an order. And two: (It took a little prodding this time but...) The best dealers and manufacturers will usually do whatever it takes to resolve this sort of problem. If we support these good companies they will continue to support us.

Greg



As a dealer, manufacturer and publisher, I know full well how all of these things can happen. As a performer and a collector, I know how it feels to receive a defective prop. When I fill an order, I try to make sure that everything is as it should be.

I just finished packing for the IBM convention, where I will have a booth. I purchased several different sets of cups and balls to sell in my booth. I spent several hours checking them to make sure they were good before I put them in the cartons. I want all of my customers to be happy.

When I send out a carton of books, I make sure that it is in good shape. If there is any indication that the carton has received a jolt, I check the books inside to make sure that they have not been damaged.

I try to think of myself as the fellow on the other end of the shipment.

Now, let me tell you about some other people in the business.

Pete Biro makes some great cups. I purchased a set of his Johnny Paul cups from Stevens. I had owned them for about a week before I got around to examining them really closely. The cup in the center of the stack had a ding in it. I figured that after a week, there was nothing I could do about it, so I didn't say anything to Joe about it. I mentioned it to Pete in a PM, and he sent me a replacement cup. That's going above and beyond the call of duty.

Stevens is the same way. If you get a defective product, they take care of it.

Hocus Pocus is another dealer who is meticulous.

Joe Porper is another one of the good guys.

George Robinson at Collector's Workshop/Viking/Haenchen is yet another.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Stephen Barney
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UK
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Long live customer service! it costs so little to behave in the manner you describe Bill and it creates such good will it is a shame that all business don't understand this. Geemack glad to hear your dealer lives up to these standards
Bill Palmer
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On the way up to the IBM Convention, I had a chance to pick up a brand new, still sealed in the bag Johnson Chop Cup at price that would allow me to sell it at a small profit. It had absolutely no defects in it, whatsoever. So I have a feeling that your cup was an anomaly.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Bill Palmer
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I haven't seen any odd cups from Johnson. But I haven't bought any for a few years.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
BCS
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Long ago in the 90's I purchased a Johnson Chop Cup that had a very weak magnet. It was a uncapable of holding a ball. Johnson replaced it with no problem, the new Cup worked perfectly.

Thanks,
Bruce
Hookem
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I bought my Johnson Chop Cup at a Kenna Thompson auction in 2005 and it has no ridge.
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