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MattyMediocrity
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What are some applications for having multiple stacks memorized?

I chose position 5 in the Faro rotation as my stack just because it's easy to get into and I thought being a few shuffles away from new deck order was pretty cool.

I just realized that with about a half second of math, I know position 4 too.

I didn't plan on ever learning a second stack, but because I sort of got a freebie, I was wondering if there's anything I can do with it.

Thanks!
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JanForster
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Generally (by experience) I would not recommend learning a second stack. I would recommend what Simon Aronson suggested already. It is based on Si Stebbins, e. g. in CHaSeD order. If you see your stack, just think which card would precede in Stebbins and replace the card. For example: If the JS is your #1, replace it by the 8H which precedes the JS in Stebbins, and so on. If you would see now the 8H you have only to think which card follows the 8H in Stebbins, which would be the JS. The JS is your #1. Therefore, the 8H is your #1 in your second stack… Jan
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Nikodemus
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I have seen posts on the Café from some people who seem to have learnt about half a dozen stacks! I guess some people have an aptitude for it, and presumably enjoy the learning process.

I had a situation recently where it would be useful to know two different stacks. Rather than learning a new one, I "generated" one by applying an algorithm to my existing stack. This is the same general principle as described by Jan above. (I had not come across that particular one - thanks Jan!)
I considered several options, all of which fall under the same principle.

One was the Bart Harding system. This is a really easy system. The "default" version is to start with a deck in A-K order, then apply the simple algorithm to create a new position for each card. Its big drawback (in my opinion) is it assumes you know the positions in the original order. I don't - I have to work them out by adding 13, 26 or 39 depending on the suit. BUT with your memorised stack you already know the card positions perfectly. So it is a great system to generate a new stack from an existing one.
In my case this did not work though. Mine is based on the Joyal Stack. The mathematical nature of the Joyal Stack and the Harding system create a generated stack that does NOT look random unfortunately.

In the end I created what I call a "Mates Stack". All I did was swap each card with its mate. Obviously the two look similar, but they are different enough for my purpose.

I played with a few other ideas, but can't remember right now. Anyway, the general principle is a really useful one!
no2ss
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I have a few stacks memorized (and a few more I plan to memorize). Partly because... it's a fun mental challenge. But different stacks have different features and sometimes that's useful. But the main reason I like knowing two stacks is that I've used it for effects with two decks where I need both stacked, but also don't want anyone to notice that they're identical. I could just not show the decks, of course, but I like the added kicker of being able to show both decks face up and let the spectator choose which deck they'll use (no magician's choice) and then I can can adjust based on which stack they chose and which stack I'm left with.
JanForster
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2021, no2ss wrote:
I have a few stacks memorized (and a few more I plan to memorize). Partly because... it's a fun mental challenge. But different stacks have different features and sometimes that's useful. But the main reason I like knowing two stacks is that I've used it for effects with two decks where I need both stacked, but also don't want anyone to notice that they're identical. I could just not show the decks, of course, but I like the added kicker of being able to show both decks face up and let the spectator choose which deck they'll use (no magician's choice) and then I can can adjust based on which stack they chose and which stack I'm left with.


What you would get also with my proposition without learning a second stack… but why do I propose learning only one stack and this one really well? Because you will find out that you will use your stack also for MANY other things apart playing cards… I use it e. g. also for PI routines, lottery numbers, my „Hypno Numbers“ and so many other applications… (e. g. one of my force numbers in one of my routines is 6.101.822 … which are the 4 Aces in my stack…). This is also ONE of the reasons why I tell people since 25 years (seemingly with little success…) that they DO NOT learn an order, but a and only second secret identity for each card. If you do not learn it like that, with this mindset, then you learn nothing or almost nothing useful. Most people find out too late… and then believe (or use it as an excuse for their intellectual laziness) that they forget their stack if not in current use. Wrong. You forget it only if you learned it the false way… Jan
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landmark
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To my mind, the idea of memorizing by substitution does not take full advantage of the concept of multiple stacks (unless of course you just like the challenge). The subbed stack is going to have basically similar properties to the first stack.

I would think that it may be more useful to memorize a stack that has different properties from the original. For example, you may memorize a stack like Aronson which has some built-in poker deals, and then also learn a stack like Stebbins which allows you to do very different kinds of effects because of its tetradisic characteristics. Otherwise, you're wasting some of your brain power.

As for the OP: there's a nice advantage to knowing faro 4 and faro 5. Simply this--if you start at faro 3, you can openly faro before a spec and arrive at a known order, do an effect, then openly faro again and do an effect. You have basically nullified in the spec's mind the idea of a memdeck as method. Even magicians will be fooled. Greg Chapman has explored this kind of idea in his books.
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