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DragonLore New user Toronto 78 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 18, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: Or Silver/Copper?! |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
My bad and thanks for the feedback. we use a lot of acronym's in my industry. I will try to remember that when I speed type.
However, you folks got most all of it right with exception for my typo. SC was a typo. should have been SS decoder ring: SS Scotch and Soda EP English penny Ins..t Insert Sh..l Shell OD Outer Diameter ID Inner Diameter. Abstract? Size of the insert coin with reference to the shell helps to determine the best method of deception. -Small insert with reference to the shell? Deception is the Rim on the shell. -Big insert with reference to the shell? Deception is the Rim on the insert. Assuming it is a quality build.
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 19, 2022, Calvin Tong wrote: I'm firmly in the camp of a full/thick rim for any gaff that's going to be showing / featuring a "dirty side" mouth up view. Scotch and Soda, CSB, Sun/Moon. For the latter two, yes, a c/s coin and a shell can get by, but it's just not the same. |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
I get that acronyms are useful, but only when they've been agreed upon and commonly used. Otherwise they're more effort for everyone else, especially if nonstandard.
You still didn't define KH, so going to stick with my guess of Kennedy Half. My take: it's not just about the relative diameters of the two coins, big vs small or similarly sized. There are a ton of other factors, specifically around the sizes of the two coins relative to the other features on a coin. If a coin has a natural line on it somewhere (such as the edge of the milling*, or something in the pattern) then being able to do a cut on that line can make a gaff significantly more deceptive, whereas putting it elsewhere can make it harder. So a coin that leaves the half dollar with the full rim (without having to shave the second coin) ends up looking pretty good, and is why the Centavo is convenient, especially as compared to the English Penny, which is actually larger. The same thing happens in a Vodka/OJ where the quarter is the same size as the Sacagawea dollar, minus the raised edge. Of course, the reverse of the Sacagawea looks a bit funny on the insert, but hopefully that's never seen alone. Compare that to, say, a Captain and Coke where the penny is much smaller than the quarter, and the "dirty" side is much more obvious - even aside from the orientation being hard to get just right. So I'd say that while the relative sizes of the shell and insert are important, there are a bunch of other factors to consider, as well. For example, you could make a pretty great Captain and Coke alternative with a Canadian Toonie and Penny (assuming the sizes are right, maybe a dime?) because of the bicolored coin and insert. Heck you could probably do some fun color changes/alchemist phantasy work with the right gaffs/plating. *Milling is commonly (and incorrectly) used to mean the serrated ridges on the sides of some coins (like the american dollar/quarter). This is actually called reeding, but is often called milling because gaff-makers frequently use a mill to add them back in to a coin, aka re-milled. In this case I'm talking about the edge of where the coin is stamped (if appropriate) for a coin, where the rim to design meets. |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
Standardization of terms would be convenient.
I am also in this camp: "I'm firmly in the camp of a full/thick rim for any gaff that's going to be showing / featuring a "dirty side" mouth up view. Scotch and Soda, CSB, Sun/Moon." This straight forward comment tells me that you mostly likely own or have owned many different versions of rimmed gaffs. "For the latter two, yes, a c/s coin and a shell can get by, but it's just not the same." :o) caL
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2022, Calvin Tong wrote: I suppose you could say that I've seen a few and owned a few. |
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Wednesday New user 80 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 21, 2022, inigmntoya wrote: I see that you have both sets with the English Penny and the Peruvian Sol coin. I'm curious to your thoughts and maybe even preference between the Penny and the smaller Peruvian coin in regards to the CSB? I haven't been able to find too many posts discussing the differences between the two copper coins so I'd be curious to know your thoughts as someone who has both. Thanks. |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 21, 2022, Wednesday wrote: IMHO, an English Penny is a terrible choice for the inner coin in a CSB set. It's naturally LARGER than a half dollar so it has to be milled down a ridiculous amount to fit. A normal English Penny (EP) will look odd next to it so that has to be milled down too for the set to be consistent. If it's the only thing you do with EPs it's probably OK as most people don't know what they're supposed to look like, but it presents problems if you do other routines where a normal EP is in play (for example, many copper/silver routines). The EP makes far more sense as the outer/shell coin in a 2 copper 1 silver set. The brass Peruvian Un Sol de Oro with the vicuña (not a llama) is a more natural fit for leaving a full rim on the half dollar part of the gimmick. It gives clear size and color contrast to the half dollar as well as the copper the East African Dime it's most commonly paired with. It was a unique combination of genuine* coins created by Todd Lassen, copied my Jamie Schoolcraft, and then others. *Todd later had custom Un Sol de Oros made for him in both brass and copper. For clarity of effect, 2 copper 1 silver may be preferred, but the hole in one coin of most CSB sets makes things seem "more impossible" to me. |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
I kind of suspected so….. but not to this degree of “coin-gaff-aholicism”.
“I suppose you could say that I've seen a few and owned a few. “ Thanks for taking the time to photo the collection. Love it!
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Oh yeah, definitely a gaffaholic.
That's actually an old "family portrait". There's more now. Quote:
On Apr 22, 2022, Calvin Tong wrote: |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
Perhaps I'm the only one to make such a distinction, but I think of there as being a meaningful distinction between a gaff-a-holic and a collector.
A gaff-a-holic wants to pick up everything - regardless of if it's new, any good, or they already have one. A collector has a (usually) small set of things they're interested in (CSBs, for example) and wants distinctive/unusual ones to add to the collection. For example, I don't usually hear of people calling themselves cups-and-balls-aholics, but instead just say they're a collector of them. Of course, it's not a hard line - to say "I collect all forms of coin gaffs" sounds a lot like the former. And maybe inigmntoya has a lot of other stuff, too (I'm sure, and he does accept the term), but from that picture alone I'd say it's hard to be certain which camp it is. But I second that being a beautiful collection! |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
Inigmntoya,
would love to see an updated family portrait some day. Beautiful. Another subtle observation (reading inbetween the lines) about your comment is that beyond just cosmetics, the handling of the gaff is affected as well. A shell / large insert coin is just not the same as the preferred (a smaller insert coin / thick rim shell). From my experience, It is doable but the handling is just not as smooth. The later moves like butter. Quote: For the latter two, yes, a c/s coin and a shell can get by, but it's just not the same.”
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2022, Calvin Tong wrote: Here's a teaser...(what I'm currently carrying). Three guesses who made it, and the first two don't count. |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: Yes, probably more a collector. It started with CSB (and CSB-like) sets, expanded to shell sets (pun not intended but funny now that I see it), and the number of Chinatown sets is starting to grow. But no, not every gaff. |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
That is Todd's Miracle Enjoyment coin in the first 2 pics.
I don't know the maker of the other pics. They look great.
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
I think they're all the same set - it's just a close up to show the detail and inspectability of the coins close up.
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 27, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: Exactly. It's a CSB set w/infinity edge. |
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
Sorry. My bad. I misunderstood. :o(
I love the Nice thick rim on the mouth of the shell (exactly what we discussed before). On a side note, looking at your pictures Remind me back when I purchased a CSB and Miracle Enjoyment coin set from Todd. I was in the market for a dollar size Okito box set as well and thought it would not hurt to ask him if he happened to have one laying around from his initial batch which was sold out. He said to me "hmmmm....I think I kept one for myself so let me look around the shop." Todd got back to me in a few days and said he still had one regular brass box and a brass Boston box and asked me "you still want them?" I don't think I need to tell you that my answer was clearly "YES." The weight of Todd's Okito box is unmatched by any other dollar box I have so far (Although I have several Craig Ousterling boxes which I feel are right up there side by side with Todd's boxes). For me, pictures like these bring back a lot of memories. caL
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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