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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Please recommend a toss-like false transfer (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bob G
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Hi folks,


Now that I've made some good progress with cards, I'm ready to start learning about coins and balls (specifically, for the latter, Mike Skinner's Ball Vase).


I've noticed that I tend to *toss* an object from hand A to hand B if I need up to free hand A for other purposes. It's kind of a quick, casual, throwing motion; I don't think my hands even contact each other. I'm not sure if I usually toss into the receiving palm or the middle of the receiving fingers.



I wondered if people could recommend a good, deceptive false transfer that simulates my habitual action. Ideally it would be a sleight that I could use for both coins and balls.


Thanks for any help people can offer.


Regards,


Bob Smile
Michael Rubinstein
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So many. Look at the vanishes in Bobo's New Modern Coin Magic. Bem Salinas did the dvd instruction of the book. Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights DVD series. Al Goshman and Al Schneider do great toss vanishes. You can find Goshman's in his book, and Schneider in Al Schneider on Coins, on the aformentioned Encyclopedia of CoinSleights, or Al's other books and DVDs. The retention pass is a bit more advanced, so learn a basic toss vanish first
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JoeHohman
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Bob, I second Michael's nominations, and I would also add Bill Tarr's book, "Now You See It, Now You Don't." (I threw that out there just for you, MB!)

Doing a FP as you roll your wrist can be very believable if you do it in a relaxed and natural manner.
Bob G
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Thanks, Michael and Joe. I think have Salinas's DVD(s), and and I definitely have some of Schneider's work. After I asked my question I found Gary Oullet's all purpose vanish and Rick Holcombe's youtube video on dumping from finger palm to finger palm. Also went back to Schneider's book, Theory and Practice of False Transfers, which has a nice, detailed chapter on the finger palm. When I asked my question I didn't realize that I had some good answers in my library already.


And Joe, a question: Do you know of a source for the wrist-roll during the FP that you mentioned? I see that MB has already thanked you for mentioning Bill Tarr! Smile So many people like Tarr's book that I have to take another look. I've always had trouble interpreting the pictures -- ironic since the pictures are a big draw for many people.


Michael, I appreciate your advice to wait on the retention pass.


Bob
tonsofquestions
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Kainoa has some very nice finger roll work with various transfers, changes, FP-ed coins, etc.
Bob G
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Thanks, T-of-Q. Do you have any references?

Thanks,

Bob
Michael Rubinstein
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Kainoa's fingertip roll stuff may be too advanced for you, but he did a lecture on the NYCMS DVD series, and he had a series on reel magic. He also has some spiral bound books put you can get from him directly.
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC SPECIAL:
I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COPIES AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED, AND COME WITH A SPECIAL FREE GIFT! If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
tonsofquestions
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I agree that the finger roll stuff isn't easy. Might be too hard, but both good to know about, and good as something to have as a stretch goal.

I feel like I've seen him demo it a couple of times, probably in lectures. His Penguin one is good, and I think he did one on Reel Magic. Maybe it was one of the Coin 101 videos. If you ever see him show his miser's dream, he tends to talk about it there.
Bob G
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Thanks, guys, this is helpful. I definitely need to stick to basic moves for the present, and work slowly and deliberately. I'm going to start with Al Schneider's description and photos of the FP.
JoeHohman
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Bob, what I meant about the wrist roll --- just roll your wrist as you supposedly dump the coin into your other hand. Follow the other hand with your eyes. Maybe rub the fingers of the other hand together as the coin dissolves.

Any good fake put should look nonchalant and spontaneous; if it looks like you're trying, it ain't working.
Bob G
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Hi Joe,

I *think* I'm visualizing what you're saying. So, for instance, if you're dropping the coin from the right into the left hand, your right wrist will turn so that the right hand goes from palm up to palm down? In other words, the right wrist is the axis of rotation (technical terminology is an occupational hazard: I'm a retired mathematician Smile ). If I'm right about what you mean, it's more or less what I do anyway, as described in my first post.


I gather that the rolling motion you referred to is different from the one that Michael advised against starting with?


The nonchalance will come after lots of practice and attention to detail, I imagine.

Thanks,

Bob
Bob G
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P. S. I really appreciate the time you people are taking to help me. It is, indeed, *very* helpful.


Bob
tonsofquestions
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There are lots of things you can do where you clip a coin between two fingers (either like a purse palm, on the edge, or even with the thumb) as to do the exact motion (axis rotation) you mention, as a fake put. You can likely make it mirror your normal actions (almost) exactly depending on the placement of the initial coin, and where/how you clip it.

You could also check out folk's work on the Bobo switch, where you can do similar things - just in this case you're "switching" to nothing, rather than another coin. I think Sankey has some videos on his YouTube channel that cover that kind of thing.
JoeHohman
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Yes, Bob, you are understanding me precisely. And yes, I would avoid the four-coin roll for now! (It's an impressive, difficult thing to do. But save it for later.)

The first coin "routine" I ever learned, and which I still perform regularly, is Gadabout Coins from Bobo. You can start with FP and limited shuttles, but then as you work up to ROV, etc. you can make it more sophisticated. You won't fool any magicians with it. But people ALWAYS express surprise when your hands are empty at the end. It's kind of like hopping half without the gaffes!
Mb217
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Lots of good info here from some good folks, like my buddy Joe… Smile

And glad he brought up Gadabout Coins, as it’s a great trick. I even have a take on it in my Mini Magic Book, Pa’s Famous 3 Coin Trick. I hopped it up a bit with the things I do, but even the classic trick is a lot of fun and good practice as to what good coin magic is all about. Oh, and yes, it is also taught in the old, Now You See It, Now You Don’t magic book. *Thanks for mentioning it, Joe. Smile

And as to toss transfers, really a simple thing once you realize how people see & follow your movements. Smile It happens so fast within a routine, just a matter of reflex in making everything appear like normal actions. For me, usually just a FP and a turn of the wrist does the job quite convincingly every time. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Bob G
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Thanks, Joe, for confirming what I thought. So far I just perform for family and friends, and if I never go beyond that, that will be fine. No aspirations to fool magicians!


And Marion, I appreciate the encouragement as always. We actually talked about Gadabout Coins a few years ago, but I quickly realized that I'd have to focus on one branch of magic (cards) if I was going to get anywhere. My card skills are still pretty elementary, but I have enough under my belt that I'm ready to branch out to coins (while continuing the cards). I recently fulfilled a dream of several years, with the help of a friend on the Café, which was to do the Biddle Trick with a Sherlock Holmes story. (The story motivates gathering four or five cards: Inspector Lestrade is looking for suspects.) Still working on saying the words while doing the moves -- at the same time, OMG! Smile

Just bought your mini-book! I'm looking forward to studying it.


Bob
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, Bob G wrote:
…So far I just perform for family and friends, and if I never go beyond that, that will be fine. No aspirations to fool magicians!…

Just bought your mini-book! I'm looking forward to studying it.

Bob


Hey thanks, Bob… I think you will enjoy it as it also has some card stuff in there, too. Smile

And thank God there are many more family & friends than magicians to perform for. They are the real meat & potatoes as to presenting magic anyway. Smile

I hope you enjoy my work, and please come back and let others know here what you think. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, JoeHohman wrote:
Yes, Bob, you are understanding me precisely. And yes, I would avoid the four-coin roll for now! (It's an impressive, difficult thing to do. But save it for later.)


I don't think anyone's mentioned the four coin rolldown/production. That's much more of a flourish.
People have mentioned the (knuckle) coin roll, which typically uses just one coin, though it's possible to do more. Sometimes it's called the steeplechase.
Which is also a flourish, but can be used to suggest empty hands, and is very different. It still may not be exactly what Bob is looking for, but it can _end_ with a toss-like transfer (a-la Kainoa) which is why I'd mentioned it as something to at least look up/watch.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2022, Bob G wrote:
... It's kind of a quick, casual, throwing motion; I don't think my hands even contact each other. I'm not sure if I usually toss into the receiving palm or the middle of the receiving fingers.



I wondered if people could recommend a good, deceptive false transfer that simulates my habitual action. Ideally it would be a sleight that I could use for both coins and balls.


Please elaborate some about your habitual action.

Al Schneider may have the drills/thinking you need for your sleight. The specifics of your habitual action may help others direct you toward some specific sleights. Also some about whether you tend to look at your hands or whether you tend to be look your audiences as you perform.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Bob G
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Nice to hear from you, Jon. It's hard to catch yourself at what you're doing, isn't it?!! One thing I can add is that the fingers of the tossing hand open for just an instant as I'm tossing, then they close again. I suppose that could be a problem while doing a false transfer because people might see, between my open fingers, that I'm retaining the coin. Not sure, have to try it. Also, although I close the receiving hand after it catches the coin, I think I tend to leave it in the air, palm up. Or maybe sometimes I let the receiving hand form a loose fist and drop it on the table, resting on the curled pinky.


I'll try to keep observing; that's the best I can do right now.


So far Schneider's work, both on video and in The Theory and Practice of False Transfers, seems to be moving me in the right direction. I'm working on finger palm, as described by him with excellent precision and detail.


Bob
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