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BarFly Regular user I hate digging holes for 121 Posts |
Greetings and salutations!
I’m seeing a Morgan replica CSB set being marketed with coins made by Lions Miracle, and routine by Jimmy Fan. I’m in the market for a new CSB set and was wondering if anyone could speak to the quality of these coins. I’ve been away from Magic for sometime and have never heard of them. I tried the search function, but came up empty handed. Thank you! |
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BarFly Regular user I hate digging holes for 121 Posts |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
It's a Chinese brand, and more often goes by "Oliver Magic". There was a thread about some of their other coins here: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......orum=202
They're fairly good, and while I haven't tried that set in particular, others I've used/seen aren't the highest quality, they're a very good deal for the price. I've heard the Bluether coins (which run for a little more, be wary of the ones that claim to be but are really this set) are supposed to be better, but I haven't tried those either, so I can't compare them. My understanding is that these are probably plated coins (so colors might wear over time) while the Bluether ones are solid materials. Hope that helps. |
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BarFly Regular user I hate digging holes for 121 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 23, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: Huge help! Thank you!I I checked the Bluether site, but they are showing “out of stock”. |
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Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
Reach out to Joe Berman, who is the US distributor at
Joe@bluethermagic.com He is a nice, knowledgeable guy who will help you in any way he can. I have the CSB 2.0 and the Nested CSB (which would be like Carpenters Coin set, except in Morgan size) And they Blow away Oliver / Lion quality machining and replica accuracy. Hope that helps, Steph
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
I thought the CSB 2.0 *was* the Nested CSB. Or do you mean their 4-in-one? The CSB is out of stock, according to their site, but perhaps emailing might give an estimate of when they'd be available again.
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Roki Special user London 749 Posts |
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On Feb 5, 2022, Stephon Johnson wrote: |
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Roki Special user London 749 Posts |
Do you have any Lion / Oliver coins to compare? I looked up Bluether and they seem to be the same sets. Quite a lot of reputable dealers have one or more sets of Oliver Magic coin sets . They seem to be a reasonable quality cheaper set for those who can't pay the real coin prices.
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
They're similar sets, but the types of metals and details on the coins are different.
The Bluether coins look a lot like real Morgans (not quite right but close), the Oliver ones do not. Laymen probably can't tell the difference, but anyone who knows their coins would. And you probably can't use both together. I think someone posted some screenshots before, or you could do a search for some images online. Pay particular notice to the hairline, had (at the back of the head) and nose. I also believe the Oliver ones are plated, which might wear over time. I'm not sure about the Bluether copper coin. The fact that the set (which gaffs in which combination) are the same doesn't mean anything about the quality. That's like saying Lassen and Sasco both make the same sets, so there's no reason to spend more. (I'm not trying to compare Bluether to Lassen.) I'm sure some folks have both and could comment deeper, but that's at least a start for you. |
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Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
BLUETHER is the clear leader of the Replica sets. Some time in the future TCC might over take them, but for now …not yet.
Enjoy the search! Steph
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 12, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: Spot the Bluether and/or genuine coins. Let's refer to them as numbers 1 through 8: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Dates obscured because Bluether tends to have the same year on everything and I didn't have a real coin handy with that year. #6 - the awful/totally fake looking "replica" ("Roman statue" nose, coarse detail in the hair) with brass starting to show through included as something to avoid. |
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Degio Regular user It took me years to get to 152 Posts |
Great game inigmntoya!
I recognize only the awful #6 since I bought a couple of those from AliExpress. You can find it everywhere with different names and with many gaffs (shell, flipper, etc.) e.g. see here: https://www.approachchina.com/super-morg......859.html |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
Ha, yep. I recognize that one from pictures, too.
Since no one else has chimed in, I'm going to guess 2,3 and 7, but only because of some pretty subtle details, and the fact that the wearing is extremely similar, since I know they mostly make UNC ones. But honestly, using that as the tell almost feels like I'm slightly cheating. One interesting observation: I haven't heard the same complaint about Oliver's (brass/coated) WL replicas. Which is surprising. Are those just better made? Or do they also look as bad, and people just don't talk about it as much? |
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Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
Tonsofquestions:
I got an Oliver WL Shell set AND a Ramsay stack set. Both suffer of lightweight plating. The plating seems to suffer most around the recesses of the details. It COULD be helped by doing a dark gray diluted wash of flat Testor model paint to mimic patina. The BEST things of Bluether 2.0 coins are beautifully replicated, NOT plated- but White Copper thru and thru! That means: They CAN be softened and aged! Bluether offer that option for more cost, but you have that option! Lion, Oliver, China52 etc. will never match the quality. And honestly, the price difference is not inflated! They have great prices for the products. Joe Berman is the icing on the cake with Bluether! He knows magic, what magicians want and he is just a great all around guy to deal with!
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 14, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote: You're guessing 2,3,and 7 are real or fake? |
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Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
My guess was 2,3 fake and MAYBE 7 too 😎
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
Ah, whoops. I was guessing those were the Bluether ones.
I mostly ask about the WL quality because I typically use halves and not dollar sized coins. If Bluether offered a set of those, I would 100% pick one up. But if I want the "ultimate CSB" in a smaller size, it seems like the only viable option is Oliver, or a very expensive custom set. Or I could bite the bullet and just try to use the larger coins, and try to deal with the fact that it wouldn't match anything else I have. |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
2,3,& 7 are in fact Bluether coins, one is even a shell but they aren't the only fakes in the set. 🙂
What's the "tell" on the Bluether ones? |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
Ha, no particular "tell" for the coins. Mostly just me looking closely at them, and thinking that the wearing patterns were too similar (mostly very uncirculated), and were likely from a matched set. It's also tricky when the light changes the apparent relief on some of the coins.
Are the other fakes also Bluether? If you forced me to guess, I'd say 4/8 might also be fakes, (I'm now guessing 4 coins and a shell), but 4 is on the edge for me. Which makes the 1/5 the real ones. Or maybe I'm wrong, and 1/5 are a different brand of fakes, and 4/8 are the real ones. I also think(?) upon looking again that the stars might be a smidge smaller - compare those on 2 to 4, but that's really only visible if you hold them next to each other. I'll guess that 3 is the shell. |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
To be honest, I've forgotten which one is the Bluether shell. 🤣
I think it's #2. #3&7 - one was from the set with the shell, the other from a CSB set. #1 is a genuine circulated coin. #4&5 are the uncirculated shell and coin from my Lassen Hopping Halves, and (drumroll...) #4 is a cheap steel fake I got off Amazon - shined up with some Nevr-Dull - hence no excuse for anyone releasing ones that look the awful #6. |
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