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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Lion Miracle Coins (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tonsofquestions
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You list #4 twice (as a fake and as an uncirculated shell/coin), so I'm not sure which it is. I'd also believe #2 is a shell.

#6 definitely makes me not want to ever get the Oliver coins, though. Some of their other gaffs are great (like the M-Box). Coin accuracy ... not as much. It's sad, really.
inigmntoya
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DC area native, now in Atlanta
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Quote:
On Feb 20, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote:
You list #4 twice (as a fake and as an uncirculated shell/coin), so I'm not sure which it is. I'd also believe #2 is a shell.

#6 definitely makes me not want to ever get the Oliver coins, though. Some of their other gaffs are great (like the M-Box). Coin accuracy ... not as much. It's sad, really.


My mistake. The Lassen shell and coin are 5 & 8. They're from a hopping halves set - #8 is milled down to fit the copper shell from that set.

#2 is most likely the Bluether shell.
Roki
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London
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Are you guys coin collectors??
I can't see a problem with the fake coins. Has anyone had an audience say they will only watch coin magic if the coins are genuine morgans ? Isn't it what you do with them that impresses?
Especially, as a beginner with coin gaff sets , I can get the CSB set requested for under $35 from China. Plus I can see what I am getting , and return if they are inferior. I have found it very hard to research and buy high quality coins via the Internet. This is a good way to get started.
tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2022, Roki wrote:
Are you guys coin collectors??
I can't see a problem with the fake coins. Has anyone had an audience say they will only watch coin magic if the coins are genuine morgans ? Isn't it what you do with them that impresses?
Especially, as a beginner with coin gaff sets , I can get the CSB set requested for under $35 from China. Plus I can see what I am getting , and return if they are inferior. I have found it very hard to research and buy high quality coins via the Internet. This is a good way to get started.


There's a lot in there to unpack.

Am I a coin collector? No. (I can't speak for inigmntoya, but I suspect he'll chime in.)
Do I have a good eye for detail? Yes. Can I see a clear, and obvious difference, at least from the Oliver coin? Absolutely. If you can't, look again.
Will the average spectator notice this, if not a coin collector? Almost certainly not.
Would it be a problem if you wanted to mix these gaffs with other Morgan replicas and/or real coins? Very likely.
Is a lack of attention to detail here a strong sign of a similar lack of attention in other places? Also seems likely.

Does that mean the Oliver set isn't a good budget one, especially for magicians new to coin magic? Again, no. But we include the information here so that folks can make more informed decision about what they're getting.

No one said that you can't do good magic with replicas - heck, people do stuff with poker chips or washers.

But it is useful to discuss quality, both so folks are aware of what they're getting, and so you understand whether this might be compatible with other stuff you own (or will eventually buy) because many do care about that. It's why some people are very particular about which Chinese coin a set comes with, so they can use with other routines, rather than having to constantly switch out coin sets.

And it is a sign of quality/attention to detail, which some folks like to know about. I rarely want to buy the absolute cheapest set - because it won't last well - and the most expensive set is often out of the question. For a little bit more, the Bluether set is a fantastic value for the price - the coins are spot-on, they're solid metal (instead of plated) so can be softened and will last much better, etc. You say it's hard to do research on the higher end coins? That's exactly why we have these sorts of conversations - so you can tell which are which quality.

Does that mean you shouldn't consider the Lion's set? Again, no. Maybe you want to get other stuff at the same time that will match, or might upgrade later. But it's good to be informed in your decision, just as folks have talked about some shady practices they have ripping off other material. Folks will continue to buy from them, and many will continue to be happy. But having a conversation about it might help some prevent disappointment.
inigmntoya
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DC area native, now in Atlanta
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2022, Roki wrote:
Are you guys coin collectors??
I can't see a problem with the fake coins. Has anyone had an audience say they will only watch coin magic if the coins are genuine morgans ? Isn't it what you do with them that impresses?
Especially, as a beginner with coin gaff sets , I can get the CSB set requested for under $35 from China. Plus I can see what I am getting , and return if they are inferior. I have found it very hard to research and buy high quality coins via the Internet. This is a good way to get started.


I collected coins as a kid, so I know what real Morgans and other coins should look like.
As Tonsofquestions mentioned, a gimmick made from a fake coin that doesn't match others can stand out.
If you happen to have a knowledgeable spectator they'll spot the fake too and that will be their solution to anything you perform "fake/trick coins". Why take that risk when there are other economical alternatives. Clad coins, poker chips etc.

The main issues we've been talking about is that many coins from Lion/Oliver and others claim to be replicas but they don't look like what they're trying to copy.

If you're performing at a distance it shouldn't be much of an issue, but I do close-up and want spectators to handle the coins, and well... See them up close. Real silver coins have a heft and sound different from any fakes. It's mainly an aesthetic preference but it's what I like. Aesthetics aside, silver feels less slippery in my hands giving better control. The extra weight can also help some sleights.
Bozman
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Massachusetts
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Good discussion. I am relatively new to coins and appreciate the insight. I have a few different sets and find the biggest issue with cheaper ones is they are not consistent (with other fakes or real ones). If all the coins in a routine are replicas, but they match each other, not a big deal for the average spectator. But if there are real ones mixed in or different sets combined together, the differences stand out.
The #6 example above looks like it would stand out with anything unless they ALL looked like #6's. They also tend to feel lighter, sharper and/or slicker.
Bozzy
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