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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Actually, this dialogue has taken a rather tense turn and I suspect my 'demands' for DVD have had more than a little to do with it. Of course Mr Forte has every right to decide the medium of his material and I guess I am only wishing very strongly it could be different. In the process I think I have come across a bit pushy and cutting which is not really my intention at all. From the recommendations I'm sure I will get a great deal out of these videos including some useful finger exercise with the remote control.
Regards, Paul H |
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Docc Spurlock Regular user Chicago & Arizona 165 Posts |
A friend of mine has Steve Forte's Gambling Protection #3. Anyone interested in it he will take $30.00 shipped in the USA.
"CREATOR OF THE FLOATING FLAME TO DOVE"
. If you are always looking back you can't see what's in front of you so when you bump your head again you have no one to blame but yourself! |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Craig, what sort of price range are we talking for Mr Forte's new book? If you're not at liberty to say that's ok. The topic as mentioned by Jason E sounds like it would be very interesting to read. One must have other interests besides "card magic"...
The way I view this stuff is that if I want the knowledge on something I'm willing to pay the price. Maybe this marks me as a sucker in some people's eyes but so be it. You don't get anything for free, really. Well maybe advice. Sometimes. T. Joseph O'Malley
tjo'
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Paul, buy the VHS tapes and then copy it to your laptop and then use QuickTime to go frame per frame backwards or forward when practicing each move you want to learn. Then if you want, just hook up your laptop to your TV etc to enlarge to your liking.
I have a PowerBookG4 Mac that works great and I can pull up everybody doing the second deal at the same time if I choose in order to practice; I have about 40 gambling or gambling related tapes on my laptop in which I practice with. I find the mpg format is the best quality to use without taking up too much space as in CD or DVD quality, which is much better. To those who want Steve's stuff on DVD, I would say to you that even though it's a better quality, you want too much for nothing and stop being lazy. Many of you still after all these years don't have his tapes. Why? If you were really interested in getting something and learning it, you would get it no matter what condition it was in. I wish I did have the luxury that many of ya'll beg for in order to learn. I flew to different states and stayed in cheesy hotels in God forsaken towns while hiding my money and video equipment that I hustled for just to buy things to further my knowledge and you want DVD quality in order to watch Steve. You have DVD quality of the Macmillan turnover and I bet my life that most of you that want to learn it haven’t mastered that move as of yet? You know Jason is right when he said that if he had to listen to Steve on an 8-track tape and a 16 mm film just to see and hear Steve shows a sincere dedication to the learning of an art in which many of you will never obtain. You talk about his video being of poor quality in which is correct for the time being but this was once the best at one time and no one complained then. I believe that Jason will run rings around many of you here not because of digital quality but because he continued studying that which he had access too. Digital quality may be the best today but in 20 years it will be poor quality compared to what will be invented by then and you’ll be saying the same thing to some individual that I said to you who will say that I would like to see it in 3D quality because digital quality is of a lower standard. I’m sitting home broke now because I bought the best stuff camera wise to further my knowledge of gambling and you don’t want to spend $180 for VHS tapes because you want DVD quality. Why would a man who was going to buy the Las Vegas Gambling Supply Company waste his money on making a DVD just to satisfy a wanna-be whose only purpose in learning is to expose it in some form or fashion to show his knowledge of card cheating? That doesn’t make any sense. To be honest with you even though Steve’s videos are awesome, I know for a fact that these videos only show you enough to make you realize what is out there but also enough to get you broke if you sat down at a card table with a real hustler like myself. Believe me, I’m not the only one out here at this level. There are many that will still run rings around me so just on that note alone you should take Steve’s Videos and run with it like you’ve just found a million dollars. Bottom Line Even though I believe I shouldn’t say this I will. There are many magicians some who are at this forum that are sincere friends with Steve and likewise Steve is a sincere friend to them as well, but there are rules to the top gambling fraternity that cannot be told even to a friend and especially to a magician and Steve is bound by these rules and so am I. So if any of you out there think that I’m exposing stuff, you are sadly mistaken; you are only thinking that I’m exposing stuff because of your elementary level of expertise. Steve’s 4-part video is our High School level and then there are those like Sal, Rod Sam Case etc. that possess a Doctorate’s degree of which we are still learning from each other of which in my personal opinion Steve has a Ph. D. One more thing before I go, Steve waste more money in taking out his friends and treating them to whatever they like more than he’d make changing over his VHS tapes to DVD’s. Your Friend Doc P.S. Forgive my harsh tone but I’m a hard teacher that produces good students if they want to learn the right way, if they don’t I’ll kick them out anyway. I know my class may be dwindling because some don’t want to take the long road and just want to expose and not learn the psychology behind the move but so what, I’m a Jedi and I only produce Jedi’s. May The Force Be With You. |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1729 Posts |
Actually Paul, I didn't mean to bust on you so bad. The reality is, I'd secretly like to have Steve's GPS on DVD also.
But... The information is so incredible, and there is so much to learn from these tapes about timing, rhythm, overall excellence with a deck of cards, etc, that I'm more than willing to overlook a less than perfect format in order to access it. So, anytime I see a "form over function" style of argument with regard to Steve's tapes only being available on VHS, I get a little hot about it. The book will probably be in the $150-200 range, although I for one voted for a higher price than that even. The contents are extremely specialized, and geared primarily toward dealers, pit bosses, and surveillance personnel. If you aren't a junkie for casino protection stuff, I wouldn't bother. There are no techniques (beyond a bare-bones description of a few basics), there are no insights on how to false deal, false shuffle or switch cards and generally nothing to interest just a casual "card guy." However, if you're into gaming (as I am) then you'll find a wealth of material in the book. Look for it in the next few months. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
I see that the price has dropped since I heard about it last year tremendously.
Your Friend Doc |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1729 Posts |
Yeah. Personally, I wish the book was in the $300 - 350 range, to price it out of reach of the mildly curious.
David Malek once told me a wonderful thing. When I was complaining about a perceived high price on a particular item, he said, "Jason, sometimes you have to pay for your education." A great line, and one I use often to convince people to spend money on something really, really worthwhile. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Jason I spent close to $9,000 on stuff in one week after a big score to buy equipment just to further make it convenient when I traveled to film cheats and overpaid for heavy baggage to fly on planes and they don't want to spend $180 on VHS tapes because of quality?
Again I apologize for my lack of control in speaking of which I need the help of Jason when typing to others. Doc P.S. Jason after viewing the Shade Movie over and over again on your Macmillan turnover I mastered it the way you did without the card being turned over in bent formation. While learning the move you can't help but bend the card but with my variant handling and technique of it the retention of the turnover looks just as unbelievable as yours do. I was going to post it so all can see what practicing and critiquing can do for a person if they just take the initiative to put in some time to do it but at the moment I'm too lazy to video tape it to show it. |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1729 Posts |
Let them come to you Doc. And not just because of your recent posting activity. Give it 6 months or so, and the ones that remember will find you.
Remember, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. You've given out a lot of fish lately. No need to give another. The guys that are worthy of your time won't forget about you. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
I just want to state for the record Jason even though we never really met in person. I feel in my heart that you are a great teacher. I'm not saying this just to say it, I'm saying it because I mean it. You know you've helped me on my memory technique and the Macmillan Turnover etc. I see the naturalness in your handling of the switches which makes your moves look like real moves in the movie Shade.
I also admire Damien's handling as well not because I met him personally but because his moves look real, at least the ones I saw him do. Jason I understand what you're talking about when you say I don't need to give out too much info but to be honest with you, these people here at the forum know of you, Damien, Paul, Steve, Sal, Andrew, Darwin etc and no one knows of me except ya'll which lends some credibility but doesn't show anything in the least. Sometimes like the magicians say seeing is believing and talk is cheap. So on that note many will see that I don't only talk the talk, I can also walk the walk. Your Friend Doc |
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts |
I've seen the Steve Forte Gambling Protection Series videos are on sale in Las Vegas at the moment for about half of normal price, but I think there's only two sets or so left.
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CheckCop New user Nevada 1 Post |
Quote:
On 2004-06-25 20:18, Unknown419 wrote: I'll tell you something else to help your education, buddy. Steve Forte would not bother to post on a magic group and if he ever did he would never post the kind of stuff you do. None of the other guys you keep mentioning post this kind of information on this site either - even the ones who are magicians who post here. What does that say to you? To everyone else - get the Forte tapes. They are the best in the business. |
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Just waking up over here in the UK with a strong cup of coffee. Many thanks for your reply Jason, everthing you say reinforces the 'must have' status of these tapes. And you are quite right about the DVD's being of average quality also if the old series is mastered onto DVD.
Hi Doc, Thanks for your excellent suggestion about copying the videos to the laptop. I was so busy getting carried away with my argument, it never occurred to me. I'm afraid that clinches it!! With both you and Jason making such clear and robust recommendations I have no choice but to come out of the jungle with my hands up and order the whole darned set. Warm Regards, Paul H |
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vago Regular user Israel 116 Posts |
Is it much different than Allan Ackerman - Las Vegas Card Expert ?
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Craig Krisulevicz Special user Philadelphia, PA 647 Posts |
Like night and day.
Who is John Galt?
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Check Cop who ever you may be you sound very knowledgeable with only the few words that you said to me, all I have to say is this. Ya'll got yours (money wise) and I don't have anything.
You're right for saying what you're saying but what I don't understand and correct me if I'm wrong. Why is it okay for these same individuals who you're talking about who don't saying anything to put out VHS's, DVD's and books demonstrating the same thing in which I'm talking about and you don't say anything to them on threads? Tell me what to do to get some money so that I can leave this mess alone and look after my mom. Tell me where to go or who to speak to in order to get money so that I don't have to leave my diabetic mom who can fall out at anytime and die because of a suger drop and no home attendant? You tell me don't advertise when everybody else is. Why? You tell me to be quiet in a polite way when everybody has shown gambling moves on DVD's etc. Why? Tell me what have I done, that all who you know have not done on videos etc? I don't claim to have all the sense Check Cop, I'm willing to listen shut up and learn like everybody else? Get back to me. Signed Willing To Listen Doc P.S. You say the other guys don't post so what does that say to me? It says that they're following the code of silence but are in a position that they don't have to struggle as an only child to get money in order to save their moms life. Paul I apologize too and please forgive me, I wouldn't do anything to jepordize our friendship even if it's at this Café. You've been an upstanding guy on all the post that I've read that you wrote. It's just hard to hear that people always want more when it's already there if you just reach out and take it. Every move that ya'll want is already out there, many are just too lazy to do research and categorize it and start practicing it. A Note To All: You see the big guys is calling up on me and getting individuals with one post to speak to me? I'm not saying that they are wrong for doing this, all I'm saying is what would you do for your mom if this was your only talent? Your Friend Doc |
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Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts |
Hi doc,
Im not one of the top guns so I don't know what the "secret" stuff is. Darwin ortiz said something along the lines of'the information should be available so the student can go as far as he wants by his ambition and talent'. I hope someone can remember where he said a quote similar to that so they can post it' Doc, you said you do the stuff from the Wlater scott book.Ever thought of selling a DVD showing the work just like other cardmen do when they demonstrate thier work on dvd from thier book. Its a thought, but then people would know who you are and it might make it more difficult to find a game to cheat. I don't know much about dvd's and the lecture ciruit and how much money is in there but you could look into it. cheers kukram
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Kukram thanks for writing.
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as making DVD’s etc. I've been asked by some privately to reveal Walter's work, to put out a magazine and do lectures while selling items of cheats to benefit my status so that I can get out of the business but I refused because even though I love my mom, the life of the hustler's is more important to me than the greed for money and status, besides I can’t leave to do lectures or gamble anyway because of my mom’s ailment. I know that what’s gonna happen is gonna happen but it’s the biblical duty of the child to take care of his parent(s) when they get old and I’m bound by this code as well. My mom's life is important to me yes but not important enough to sacrifice another man's life in her place just for the love of money that's wrong. The Devil always try to hit a man at his weak point and then if that doesn't work, try to hit him in another way, then another. The Devil doesn’t hit you with crazy mess that doesn’t make any sense; he hits you at your weakest point, valid stuff that has to make you think. People don’t know that I don’t really care for money even though I may need it for necessities. Money has brought me false friends acting like my friends as long as I had it to give but when I got broke, you find out who your real friends are. This is why I had to tell what Steve, Sal and David did for me in Vegas when I got stranded. A Family of Hustler’s I’ve come from a family of gambler’s. No they weren’t great cheats but they did what they had to do to get the money. Can you imagine hearing a story of how your grandmother sat while pregnant with twins trying to come out after her water broke and still she didn’t leave the table until she won the money? She out of all people didn’t really need the money because her brother who was Ed Bradley Sr. was one of the first richest black men in Detroit with Juke Boxes and would have given his favorite sister anything she wanted. Yes he was a good-hearted granduncle and yes many of you know his son Ed Bradley Jr. of 60 Minutes of who I might see today at my aunt’s funeral (his first cousin) this morning. We just got too much pride to ask even our own relatives when we believe that we can do it our self. I guess this gene runs in the family. So to all who think that I’m talking too much, look what I refused to talk about or do for the sake of keeping a secret and I do need the money but like I wrote in previous post a life is worth more than anything in this world and my job is to save the life of the hustlers not to condemn them by revealing their secrets. Talk to ya’ll later I have to pay my respects to my aunt. Peace Your Friend Doc |
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Craig Krisulevicz Special user Philadelphia, PA 647 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-25 02:04, JasonEngland wrote: I think a person's reluctance to buy the GPS in its current format tells a lot about him. Firstly, and simply, if you really cared about this type of work, you would get your hands on these tapes. But don't think that they are the end of the road. There are numerous pieces of material out there that you need to obtain to further your studies. Knowledge is hidden everywhere, you just have to be able to sort it out. I have books on philosophy, business, public speaking, psychology, politics, art, mathematics, logic, management, war, etc. There are many things applicable to cheating, scamming and conning in every one of these genres. It takes time to learn; this is a lifelong study. Those who purchase these tapes and think that they are instant experts have better look in the mirror carefully. I'm sure there are some people out there who do feel that they become experts after viewing these tapes, and it reminds me of a personal experience: A friend of mine read ONE philosophy book and truly thought he was at the pinnacle of philsophical study. Get real. Secondly, the fact that the GPS isn't on DVD truly irritates some people and makes them reluctant to buy the VHS format. In a sense (disregarding the quality aspect, which Jason has debunked previously), the VHS-DVD war fundamentally deals with convience. People have become overly unpatient these days, and simply, if you do not have the patience to rewind or fast forward, you'd better reconsider your interest in this subject. It may seem extreme, but think about it for a bit; use that mind of yours. Besides, regarding rewinding, I find it helps to see some things in reverse, and helps me learn them. I think outside the box when it comes to this topic. I have done regular card magic, flourishes, manipulations, etc. Virtually anything one can do with a deck of cards interests me. Having said that, I can say that there is no other area of cards which demands such PATIENCE than gambling sleights. Becoming compentent in these moves surely isn't an ovenight event like the "trick" you learned yesterday and are performing today. Another thing I'd like to mention regards the price of this set. I believe they go for about $165 currently. That is a drop in the bucket in the long run. As Doc insinuated previously: If you are interested in this topic, you will spend so much more on material throughout your studies that you will think nothing of $165. If you are extemely interested, the amount you spend will increase exponentially over time. Like Doc has said, read between the lines and learn. If you are serious about this topic, and not merely motivated by curiousity, get these tapes no matter what it takes. But if you are only interested in learning some new things due to curiosity, save your money, because you'll never catch anyone doing these moves anyways. Us serious students have patience, and practice. $
Who is John Galt?
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Craig,
I find myself agreeing with almost all you have written. I do think that there is a real danger of acquiring a little knowledge and then presenting oneself as an expert without the long and often arduous road of learning through hard practice and experience. I am starting out at the very beginning of card magic after a 25 year break and I'm painfully aware of my inexperience. We had some guests over last night and we ended up watching the movie Shade which everyone really enjoyed. Afterwards, I was asked to perform some card magic and I just couldn't face it after all the professional moves we had been watching. With regard to the current GPS on VHS, the recommendations with regard to the quality of the teaching and demonstration of skill are rock solid. However, you must admit it would be very desirable to have Steve Forte produce a new updated series on DVD. This a particularly so as Doc assures us that Mr Forte's skill is far greater now than it was 20 years ago. Regards, Paul H |
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