Hey all,

So I recently bought 4 "restrike" 1878 Morgan Dollars for a very reasonable price from a seller on eBay ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353860008539 ), and I just got them in the mail and have been wondering how authentic they are. From my understanding, the term "restrike" does not connote a fake, but is often used to mean exactly that. I'm not much of a coin expert, so am having a hard time ascertaining their value / quality. In my hands, they feel authentic, and look good too - have some mild wear and the small "CC" above the letters "D" and "O" on the tail side of the coin.

I've attached photos of one of the coins - they're all pretty uniform, but by no means identical.

On another note, and following from this, I was wondering where the best place to purchase a(n ideally matching) inexpensive shell would be - I know VI has a cheap one made from a replica, but don't know how that would work with my coins...

Lastly, is there any value in putting the effort in to make the coins soft?

Would greatly appreciate a hand with this - cheers


Edit: seems the whole [img] thing for adding an image isn't working, so here's the link: https://imgur.com/a/T0VwBtL

I've found that the weight of the coins is a good way to identify real against fakes. I found that in a youtube video where it is explained. Look for it, it could help you

From coininvest.com glossary
"Restrike – an officially produced coin that's struck from an original die. Restrike gold and silver coins are issued with a retrospective date by the original mint or an officially authorised manufacturer...
Although restrikes don't have the legal tender status of the originals, they are still a great investment for their precious metal content and their historical connotations. However, collectors and investors should be aware that the word 'restrike' is sometimes used to describe fakes..."

Though out of stock at the moment, I purchased my shell from here
https://www.jbtvusa.com/p/j-b-pro-coin-l......oin-line
I am completely satisfied with it. I am not sure if you will find another real shell for less.

At the price listed on the link posted above it's guaranteed to be fake. The silver value alone in a real Morgan is 4 to 5 times what that sold for (~$4 vs ~$20)

So the next question is what kind of fake? Coated/plated brass? Steel?
At least if it looks like the photos it's a reasonable looking fake

Re: softening

Without knowing what they're made of that could either possibly work or ruin them. If plated brass you'll just wear off the silver color.
Same with trying to age them - chemicals made for aging silver may work differently or not at all on other metals.

Do they stick to a magnet?

When looking at the original listing, I noticed that the material used was identified not as silver, but as "silvered base metal."

Thanks to you all for your responses. Here's a bit of an update:

Yes, clearly the coins are not original 1878 Morgans. From what I can tell, though, they ARE legitimate Morgan Dollar restrikes, i.e.: coins cut from the same die but at a more recent point in time and with different internal metal composition (such coins are often reproduced for commemorative purposes). Dimensions and detailing are pretty much 100% accurate, and the "ping" is pretty close (not quite as deep as that of a vintage coin, but significantly better than that of a fake). Haven't been able to test the weight, but I imagine it will be very slightly less than a vintage Morgan. Also not magnetic.

As such, they're not fakes, but instead legitimate restrikes. Can only recommend, especially at the very reasonable price. They have a really nice look, feel and weight to them.

As regards the shell, I actually think that a legitimate silver Morgan shell (or otherwise a very accurate fake / reproduction) would work well, provided it's aged similarly. Does anyone know any places that still sell them, and make them well?

If it's alternate materials, that will be the primary cause of change to the tone - not the shape. So the ping being close or different really says very little other than the fact that it's solid, rather than _really_ cheaply made. I've seen replicas that go "thunk", and ones that have ring like a clad coin (probably because they are).
Weight again will really only give a suggestion of the metal, but we already know that it's not silver at that price.

As such, that information alone doesn't give any indication of whether it's a true restrike or a replica. I probably would have guessed that a restrike would be in silver, rather than other metals, but I don't know for certain. To my understanding true restrikes (using the original dies) would be relatively rare/low quantity, so still be expensive and/or collectible. Here are some that came with certificates of authenticity: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/38......estrikes

So I would probably guess that unless you have real evidence to suggest otherwise, it's a replica, and not an actual restrike.

As far as shells go, Wravyrn suggeste a good price/quality one. I'm sure Mark still makes them, and is likely just out of stock at the moment. You could also try Schoolcraft, who appears to have them in stock, but for $50 more.

One thing to be careful of, though, is sizing. Measure your coins precisely (ideally with calipers) to determine the diameter. Compare against authentic coins. (This will also be a signal about replica vs restrike). I have a replica that's a smidge larger than silver coins, which means it doesn't fit in an expanded shell that original coins would. It would suck to pay a lot for a silver one, only to discover your coins don't fit. If you'd bought a few extras, I would have suggested getting one made custom, since then you would know it would fit.

Otherwise, you could try to find a replica shell, but quality is harder to determine, and fit would still be uncertain. For situations like these, I would actually have recommended buying a shell set. It's a little more upfront cost, but you're guaranteed everything fits/matches, especially not knowing the lineage of the coins.

I also second inigmntoya's comment about softening. Since they're not silver, it's risky. Can you send a photo of the edges? Mixed coloration (hints of red) might suggest clad coins - which you definitely don't want to soften - but not seeing that isn't an indicataion the other way. Really the way to tell would be use one to make a shell (or copper/silver), and then you could see the inside, but I'm guessing that's not an option here.

I would think the US Mint owns the original dies - if they even still exist from that year.
I highly doubt there's anything 'legitimate' about those replicas.

Does anyone know where I can find a hooked silver dollar Morgan. I see half dollars but not silver dollars. Thanks

You mean they didn't end up on P&P Auction?

The Chinese are awesome at duplication. I think if they are lighter then real Morgan’s but look realistic then why not use for walk around and if you drop or lose one then it’s an easy and cheap replacement. I love silver and use silver in most of my copper silver sets but the cost of replacement can be high .

I agree.

It all comes down to the performer's preference (real or fake coins). So to each his/her own.

Unfortunately, there are sellers who prey on the lesser numismatic-knowledgable buyers and it is becoming harder to identify a Fake coin.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/......ustomers

In case anyone missed the "big red flag" from Inigmntoya: "The silver value alone in a real Morgan is 4 to 5 times what that sold for...".
In addition, Some fake coins pass the most fundamental tests: weight test, magnet test, ping test, diameter, thickness. Then it comes down to high magnification inspection of the coin features and digging into the red book. At this point, you have to decide if you want to spend your money on a silver tester and or spend your time to become a numismatic expert. Or maybe you just want to befriend a numismatic expert and buy him/her dinner. :o)

Just a note: the Mint mark, feathers, and Letters on the tail side of the restrike (in the picture way above) does not look like the detailed features on NGC graded 1878-CC Morgans. I am not an expert, but my guess is that the coin in the picture is not from the same die.

Don't know if you are still looking for a hook coin, but nowadays you might consider a magnetic dollar. The steel ones will attract to a strong magnet or you can get the fake Morgans with magnets in them. They are much more practical than having a coin with a pin soldered to it. At least to me they are. The magnet can be in your rear pants pocket or anywhere else that you find convenient.

I agree - I've never liked hook coins for being poky and sharp, and is less inspectable.

That said, magnetic coins do lose their true sound, and will cost significantly more than hook coin since they normally are made with two source coins.
It's not as big of a deal with clad coins, but when you make the step up to silver, it's a big difference.

Then again, maybe a fake (magnetic) Morgan is sufficient, if it's not being looked at closely.

These look very good and have magnets in them. Or you can go with the steel ones, but be aware they will corrode.

https://www.amazon.com/Enjoyer-Appearing......5&sr=8-1

I have to respectfully disagree.

Those coins look terrible. The face is nothing like that on a real coin (the nose, in particular is awful) - there was a whole thread about different replicas: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......&forum=3

While the magnetic element could be good, and the coin might otherwise be decent quality - especially if you're buying a whole matching set - since the original posted asked for a "silver dollar Morgan", I'd assume it's to go with some other coins he already has, at which point that will immediately stand out as being different from the rest.

Buyer beware.

They look dreadful to me.

Real Morgan:


Awful fake from Amazon with Lady "LIBBRTY" :

To each his/her own. Are you going to lay one of each on the table and ask the spectator to compare? Of course not. Most don't have a clue what they look like ordinarily. Also, the reverse is pretty much identical, so all in all it is really uncanny how close they look.

If you stare at the nose it is obviously different, but who does that? I purchased some recently and they have the nose you object to and I don't mind them a bit.