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petrakos New user 55 Posts |
Hi there - anybody have this? Saw a clip that looked intriguing and just curious about people's thoughts.
Thanks! Chris |
mandrax New user Montreal, Canada 49 Posts |
Curious also about the review. Axel's products are always well thought out.
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dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
Looks Very good and his instructions are always very clear . not a cheap product though.
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
The "Silent Rings" concept was introduced by Jonathan Neal back on the 80's (and others too)
I wonder if this is original stuff, but too expensive for me to explore. Alex is not great of giving credit (opinion based on personal communication). Might be great, but the Effects might be available elsewhere for less.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
petrakos New user 55 Posts |
Haven't watched it yet, but just saw this review on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyfE0a7VB8
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Thanks, petrakos. I did endure the long review and will upgrade my thoughts about the potential value here --
for LARGE rings in a stage type setting. Most is classic material with presentation tips that might be worth the price. There may be some original moves, but they may be on the artistic rather than technical side. Yet, I see very little that could be usable with smaller rings or in a parlor or table-hopping setting. Might be fun if you love Rings and have a spare $60 - and could revitalize an appreciation. Why they are called "Silent Rings" is a mystery other than he avoids a crash link. I will watch for other reviews from buyers with interest.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
petrakos New user 55 Posts |
You're very welcome. It is a LONG review and not particularly relevant to smaller rings. But I was intrigued by how passionate the review was. It made me want to make the jump to larger rings, if I could find some decent ones. But that's a completely different post!
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
On the large side, I recently discovered Jonathan Neal's routine available at JNWonderbiz@gmail.com $20 plus postage.
Herein he addresses the issue of "silent rings" and proof in the hands of spectators. He uses three Singles and no Double Ring for his 8 rings set. that is why I questioned how much of Axel's routine is original. I may try and develop a routine with 8" rings as combination of his ideas and my Reverse Rings approach. Who knows, I may even get Axel's material some day as I do have large rings tucked away - even a brass set.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
petrakos New user 55 Posts |
I'm not familiar with that routine but will definitely look for it. Thanks for the suggestion!
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1616 Posts |
Thanks for the kind mention Funsway! Ok- I didn't invent the silent linking routine, I just made ALL the links silent and added a few twists.
Here it is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlLalKFGLWs&t=210s. Now I developed that routine in 1978! This appearance is from the mid 80's. I didn't invent the concept of just two rings... Laurence Steinhauer had a version that preceded my own. Anyway, I did that routine for about 40 years! But I finally came to grips with its fatal flaw: while all the moves are good (and beautiful), the entire routine fails to create an appropriate level of conviction. As Levent postulated in the Benson book, unless the rings are handed out, it is just choreography. His logic (explained in detail in the Benson book) is undeniable. So I was forced to 're-invent' a ring routine that would reach that level of conviction, while adhering to my own standards of elegance and refinement. Around 2019, I developed a new 6 Ring routine. Unlike Vernon's routine, no chain of 3 is used. Just a key, 3 singles, and a linked pair (double). I restructured everything so that apparently all the rings are examined ... more than once! I kept the best moves from my two ring routine, added some music background and narrated the key moments over the music. That 6 ring version is the routine that Funsway is referencing. I think it is BETTER than what I did 40 years ago: more baffling and more suitable for contemporary working conditions. Yes, I sell it as a manuscript. No, I haven't posted it on YouTube yet. No, I haven't written up the two rings version. Why? it is inferior to my current version with 6 rings. So, that is my stake in the whole matter.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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magic.99 Regular user 181 Posts |
But I finally came to grips with its fatal flaw: while all the moves are good (and beautiful), the entire routine fails to create an appropriate level of conviction. As Levent postulated in the Benson book, unless the rings are handed out, it is just choreography. His logic (explained in detail in the Benson book) is undeniable.
MUCH respect to Jonathan Neal and to Levent - BIG fan of their work! I actually bought the Benson book just so I could read through the Levent article/arguement. A fascinating read, to be sure, however, I do not agree with his thesis. I'm not suggesting that it is wrong to hand the rings out to the audience, I just do not believe that it is as important as purposed by Levent. I just can't understand why it is so important to hand out the rings, but not everything else in the show. Very strong arguements can be made for both sides...perhaps that should be saved for another thread. |
magic.99 Regular user 181 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2022, petrakos wrote: Knowing from other purchases I have made from Axel, this will be very thorough and thought provoking. Expensive? Possibly, but that must be measured by how much one takes away/learns from the purchase. My wish is that he would have offered the option of hard copy DVDs, or perhaps a hardcopy book with a DVD/Download combination. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
"Fatal Flaw?" naaaa "Living Opportunity!"
In my F.U.N. Ring Series of eBooks I offer many ways of getting the Rings into the hands of spectators without any hint of "examine." In some I get ALL of the rings into their hands, and/or have link/unlinks occur in their hands, both with my holding one and some by them alone. I work to change spectators to 'participants', with them being part of the "cause of the magic." Perhaps I should plan on an eBook just addressing this issue/conflict as mentioned by M.99 above. Iahve used some of the methods for 60 + years - others are Emergent Creativity from the Primal rings Project. I am now working on Routines employing what Micheal O'Brien calls the Holy Grail of Rings - showing the rings separate, linking them and immediately handing them out. But even here, there must be a logical reason to hand them out. The Routines are designed for parlor or table-hopping with 4-5" rings, but some of these "handout" techniques could be applied to larger ones. The problem, for me, is audience size that makes sense of the larger rings for visibility, but limits easy exchange with participants. Too much close work with one individual deprives those in the back from experiencing the magic. One technique I have shared before is having all of the rings in the hands of spectators before your start. As people came in to be seated I would ask for those who might be willing to be Volunteers for some exciting magic. I would give them a ring to hold as identification. Later, I would tell them they could pass the ring to another Volunteer if they changed their mind. When I needed a Volunteer I would have them bring up the ring and put in a basket. Before going into my LR Routine I would have one Volunteer collect any remaining rings and place in the basket. This would identify that all the rings had been in the hands of Volunteers with no mention of "inspect/examine." This also indicated that no further Volunteers would be need and heighten expectation. I would then have the last Volunteer reach into the basket and hand me the entire set of rings. As I performed I would refer to "their rings" and even joke about some of the Volunteers "added magic" or "reluctance," etc. I found that having the single Volunteer on stage now "guard their rings" was enough to have the entire audience remember that all of them were solid and separate. Of course, this requires extra rings that is a problem with expensive sets. Here there is an advantage for "less than perfect welds" as you can cut and superglue some back together for extra cheap sets. For one show at a Christmas party for a manufacturing company, I claimed the rings had been made for me in their machine shop and everyone could be part of QC to test of the welds were solid. Without any prompting, the VP in charge of that section stood and announced, "If they don't hold somebody isn't getting Christmas bonus." In this one case I did have the rings inspected and ended with giving one to the VP for his office wall. My point is, this handing out and inspecting issue if only problem if you think it is.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Frankm6 Loyal user 299 Posts |
Purchased Axel's Master class and it is a thing of beauty. Such a well thought out overview of the rings and great routine where the rings are handed out. Although I don't buy into the necessity of that given the greatest routine I ever saw live was Richard Ross and he didn't hand out nothing. I was a kid when I saw him and thought he must have a different set of rings than what I had. Back to Axel's Master class, the 2nd part, the Silent linking, is worth the price by itself IMHO.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
An update. I earlier posted "Who knows, I may even get Axel's material some day as I do have large rings tucked away - even a brass set," with recognition
that my original views were based on scan information, and triggered by the phrase "Silent Rings" as being something new. I have been in communication with Axel and now have access to his MasterClass material. Much to explore and consider therein, and I will happily share my observations here. The amount of information is large, expansive and of high quality. My misgivings of Price has immediately changed. It is a tremendous value IF your objective is using large rings in a stage/large audience setting. For those interested in smaller rings, walk-around and unknown audiences there is less value. However, his offering on theory and audience engagement can be of value for anyone regardless of magic venue or props. So, I will offer observations so that each readers can make a good decision for themselves. For now, put his "Silent Rings" on your "maybe list." Fankm6 has had a say, and I hope others will join in. If your set of Linking Rings is just sitting a drawers, perhaps you will find reason to get them out. "Silent Rings" if they are large - some of my "F.U.N. Rings Series" if smaller. The similarity is recognition of the power and appeal of Linking Rings for today's audience.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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