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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Inventor of "Matrix" (20 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Maxyedid
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I just found what seems to be the "Matrix" effect in Stanyon's Magazine, Dec 1904 by J. Hilliard
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mindmagic
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Yank Hoe's "Sympathetic Coins"? Also in Downs's "The Art of Magic", 1909.

Barry
funsway
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I have a feeling that Ung entertained kids with pebbles moving around under leaves or slabs of bark about 50,000 years ago.
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jim ferguson
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Are you talking about the "Sympathetic Coins", as mentioned by Barry ?
If so, that's not the same trick at all, nor is it the same effect.



Jim
mindmagic
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jim ferguson
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That Wiki article has several errors - it's also about Chink-a-Chink, when this thread is supposed to be about Matrix.

As I said above, if the OP is talking about the Sympathetic Coins - that is both a different trick and a different effect to Als Matrix.

Matrix is a specific trick, and not a generic term (as it seems to be seen as nowadays). It is a coin assembly, and the actual magic EFFECT is a TRANSPORTATION. It uses four coins covered by four cards.

The Sympathetic Coins is the trick which inspired Al to create Matrix. The sympathetic coins is often referred to as an assembly also (which it technically isn't). The Sympathetic Coins is actually a PENETRATION EFFECT - the coins don't "travel" or "transport" to their destination, they pass through (penetrate) a handkerchief.

Two different tricks and effects.

Chink-a-Chink is an assembly, the effect being a transportation. NO OTHER VISIBLE PROPS ARE USED, other than the four principle objects (sugar lumps, bottle caps etc). The objects are covered momentarily with the hands only, and the objects transport under the hands.

These three tricks are not the same, and each has it's own characteristics.





Jim
Mb217
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Seemingly a case of subtle similarities maybe overwhelming any closing recognitions of glaring differences… 🤔

“Whenever we find, in two forms of life that are [supposedly] unrelated to each other, a similarity of form or of behaviour patterns which relates to more than a few minor details, [overwhelms the mind to see things as more of the same lot than not].”

Perhaps it is more correct to say that these things are superficially similar enough to overshadow their fundamental differences…or something like that.

Still, always good to hear the fuller story and from different sources as to greater evaluation. With that, thanks to all here. 😊
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MGordonB
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Didn’t Al Schneider have something to do with this?
jim ferguson
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Quote:
On Apr 5, 2022, MGordonB wrote:
Didn’t Al Schneider have something to do with this?




If you mean Matrix then yes - its his trick.




Jim
funsway
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Quote:
On Apr 5, 2022, jim ferguson wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 5, 2022, MGordonB wrote:
Didn’t Al Schneider have something to do with this?




If you mean Matrix then yes - its his trick.

Yes, and there are posts in the Café archives about his views on the takeoffs and shift from magic to skill demonstration.
In some of his books too, with thoughts about his creation/innovation.




Jim
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Apr 2, 2022, Maxyedid wrote:
I just found what seems to be the "Matrix" effect in Stanyon's Magazine, Dec 1904 by J. Hilliard

You found an ancestor of the Coin Assembly routine?

Al’s routine has its merits. Remember the premise is that the cards prevent you from touching the coins.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Ray Haining
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Quote:
On Apr 6, 2022, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Remember the premise is that the cards prevent you from touching the coins.


An excellent piece of information there.
Mb217
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While I appreciate the cleverness of Matrix, and Matrix-type effects, I have always gotten greater enjoyment out of such coin assemblies or transpositions, etc., but done with bare hands. It always made it look like the magic or power was coming directly from you. To me, it just looks a lot more magical with no in-between to it, like watching Michael Amman or Eric Jones do Shadow Coins on a floor, or Roth doing Chink-a-Chink at the table. Guess it’s just a matter of taste, but really it’s all good. 😊 But see, to me, this is magical as to the basic premise of these sorts of effects… *(oh, and for all those that need the 4 cards added, they are off to the side there). 😁

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tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Apr 6, 2022, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Al’s routine has its merits. Remember the premise is that the cards prevent you from touching the coins.


Is it? Interesting. Who was it who came up with this point? I've never heard anyone talk of that. Not disagreeing, I'm just curious.

From my perspective, the cards are there to add some time misdirection, and allow a slower presentation. Look it's under the card, it's still under the card, but now it's gone. Shadow coins always like to play with perspective, and pretend you're not touching the coins (from above) when in fact you are, and the travel is instantaneous and visual.
Jonathan Townsend
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Al discusses this in his article in Genii Magazine February 2000 issue page 40 last paragraph continuing onto page 41.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tonsofquestions
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I'll have to see if I can find that somewhere. I don't have any old issues on hand.

But thanks for the reference.
Ray Haining
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Where, and when, did Al Schneider first publish his routine, Matrix?
padre rich
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ILLUSTRATED MAGIC. 4 coins with 2 cards on a handkerchief, can be done anywhere, any time, no fussy moves.all that matrix hoo-hah.is it really that important?pick a routine you like and forget the rest...
God's grace rocks! It makes a good cups and balls routine look pretty boring in comparison.
funsway
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His book came out in 1974, but "Matrix Coin Trick by Al Schneider in Genii 1970 November, Vol. 35, No. 3, page 123."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Julie
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The importance of Al's effect is his "moves" are slow and deliberate. He's obviously not trying to fool you with sneaky sleight of hand or quick juggling manipulations ("look what I can do").

If Magic happened to be real, this is how it would look!

Julie
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