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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21665 Posts 
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Glad you brought this up Jason.
I think one thing missing is context. Vernon was repeating this story at a very different time. Cards themselves were VERY different from today. Heck I think you get a more consistent batch from the Dollar store today than back then. The feel is different, the quality and consistency is different and the wear is different. Context is king in these situations. It is possible that with older cards, with decks and such that passing a roughly cut stripper was far easier than today. It is also possible that it is easier accomplished back in the day. We will probably never know. I’m only suggesting many of the methods that may not pass in a home game today might have in fast company back then. Things are just so drastically different and you can’t apply 2024 sensibilities to 1930s stories. So what may seem like fanciful story telling might just be differences in time. Or maybe not who knows?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2601 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 15, 2024, JasonEngland wrote: I'm sure that by the age of 10, Dai knew about making strippers. Afterall, he'd apparently read and mastered Erdnase - by the time he was 8! 
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 334 Posts
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Those reading this thread can be assured that, despite the varying opinions being offered as to the veracity of "Bathroom Strippers", if you parse Jason's posts out of the noise, you'll be parsing out the reality of what these strippers were, how they were made, and the rationale behind them.
The great thing about Internet forums is that they bring to the table the widest variety of opinions and expertise possible, but in this particular case, and in this particular thread, Jason's expertise on the subject matter transcends the personal opinions of pundits who are focused on their disbelief as to how Bathroom Strippers were made. Proof once again that those who demonstrably fail to understand the full context, also don't (or can't) understand the process.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2601 Posts
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Well after that word salad, I'll say it again.
Perhaps Mr. England can enlighten us all of how to make a pack of workable strippers, that would fly under the radar at the card table - simply with a pack gripped in one mitt and a shard of broken glass gripped firmly in the other? Perhaps he could even release/sell a video download of it? The fact remains that like UFO's, poltergeists, aliens, headless ghosts, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, I'll only 'believe it when I actually see it'. Because until I see it, I'll just have to continue calling it out for what I believe Dai Vernon's words basically were within Inner Secrets Of Card Magic - complete "BS".
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 536 Posts
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Merc Man,
He already did a download years ago showing the process. You can find it from Theory 11 and it was called "Sub Rosa". Granted, on the download he used an emory board instead of a piece of glass but I imagine the process would be the same with the glass (assuming the glass is rough or sharp enough to sand the edge of a card) Many people here have made them this exact way ever since, myself included. I don't think it stretches credulity too much to think that the edge of a sharp piece of glass could provide enough friction to sand down a playing card. I can't understand why you think the concept of "bathroom strippers" doesn't make sense, unless you're still thinking about it in terms of wedge strippers? Jack |
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curtiswallen Regular user NY 118 Posts
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Jason very explicitly said Vernon was wrong: "That is what the book says, but it's wrong and have no idea why."
So ultimately, Barry, he agrees with you: Vernon's words in "Inner Secrets" (wherein he describes making wedge strippers) are BS. But making N strippers in the bathroom, not BS. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2601 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 23, 2024, curtiswallen wrote: He said in May 2022 (quote): Vernon is clearly describing a "rough hustle" that would be done in a pinch by a cheater that was otherwise unprepared but saw an opportunity and seized it. There would be nothing "perfectly prepared" about them. That doesn't mean they wouldn't get the money, just that they were made under less-than-ideal circumstances. So if he changed his tune thereafter, I must have missed it. Anyway, nobody is going to change my mind on this - until I see a 'rough hustle' stripper pack credibly produced; 'getting the money' in 'less than ideal circumstances'; with a piece of broken window, then I'm calling it out as complete and utter BS. I stick by what I said. That inclusion within the book was there for one purpose only - so that Harry Stanley could use it within the advertising - simply to flog as many copies as he could. If you don't believe that to be the case, then you clearly didn't know Harry Stanley!
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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curtiswallen Regular user NY 118 Posts
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Quote:
On May 31, 2022, JasonEngland wrote: Jason himself is saying that only N strippers (not wedges or bellies) could credibly be made as a "rough hustle," and not even a whole deck but just a "small number of cards." So he agrees with you, Barry. Not sure why you're yelling at the wall here. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21665 Posts
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And so the problem with people sitting on the sidelines who have obviously never made a move for the money under fire want to try to parse words from stories that are 100 years old from guys who may or may not ever made a move for money under fire. All the while trying to apply 21st century sensibilities and methods to century old stories that may or may not even have happened.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1734 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 23, 2024, curtiswallen wrote: 1. Because he thinks that "bathroom strippers" can ONLY mean a wedge stripper deck. 2. Because he seems to think that the Vernon bathroom strippers story is somehow "frozen in time" in Inner Secrets and chooses to ignore the correct write-up recorded in the Cervon Notebooks only 6 years later. 3. Because he chooses to ignore the fact that Miller (a friend) and Marlo (a "foe" of sorts) both corroborate Vernon's story in different places. 4. Because he chooses to ignore the fact that using a piece of glass to make strippers is recorded in (at least) 2 books written in the 20th century - one of them 50+ years before the Ganson book. 5. Because he doesn't understand that leaving out details (like possibly using a stripper plate, as referenced in multiple books, including one written before Vernon was born) doesn't INVALIDATE the entire concept. 6. Because he seems to think that Ganson being sensational with the write-up and Harry Stanley being sensational with the advertising somehow means that it just can't be done. Did I leave anything out? Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2601 Posts
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Quote: On Nov 26, 2024, JasonEngland wrote:
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21665 Posts
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No. That could have gotten the money 100 years ago in those conditions, not modern cards.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 334 Posts
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That Ganson didn't fully understand what Vernon was talking about has been obvious for decades, but the reference is made crystal clear by other knowledgable authors, in other publications, such that it becomes clear what Vernon's use of the term "Bathroom Strippers" actually meant.
That Ganson didn't fully understand what Vernon was talking about is made clear when Ganson writes "take about one third of the pack and press one long side down firmly on a table or other flat surface", a statement that makes obvious that Ganson incorrectly presumed that the "Mexican Gambler" Vernon spoke of was making wedge strippers, which (at least I hope) we have all long understood is incorrect, as Vernon was referencing what we know today as N-Strippers. Much, if not all of the wordage in the short 3/4 of a page that is the introduction to "Bathroom Strippers" is very obviously Ganson's, not Vernons. Vernon knew exactly what he was talking about, but he either refrained from going into highly specific detail as he relayed the information to Ganson, or Ganson simply failed to understand what Vernon was sharing with him. "Bathroom Strippers" as Vernon used the term is a reference to removing a couple or a few cards from the deck, and then taking those cards into a "dilapidated lavatory" (Ganson's terminology), and using a piece of broken glass, a nail file, or anything else that had a sharp edge, and very likely a pocket set of Stripper Plates (although the plates certainly aren't necessary for N-Strippers, they do make them more accurate) ... thus turning those couple or few specific cards that had been removed from the deck into N-Strippers. The modified cards would then be returned to the deck. If you honestly (and I do mean "honestly") believe the above scenario as Vernon and others (not Ganson) described it on more than one occasion is not possible ... there's no point in continuing this thread.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1734 Posts
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Bones,
Funny - you bring up a point that another friend of mine made offline that I honestly hadn't ever considered - that Vernon purposefully kept Ganson in the dark about the details. I have no idea if this is what transpired or not, but it's certainly plausible. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2601 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 28, 2024, Mr. Bones wrote: Oh really? Well lest we ever forget that everything Lewis Ganson authored for Dai Vernon (The Dai Vernon Book of Magic, the Inner Card Series and the Ultimate Book) ALL had their proofs sent to Dai Vernon in the USA, for his final read through and blessing. If Vernon was too bone idle to bother checking/amending errors, etc. then any fault lies squarely with Dai Vernon - not Lewis Ganson. Lest we also not forget that, certainly for the Dai Vernon Book of Magic, with Lewis Ganson as author; Ken Scholes assisting with content; George Bartlett producing the photographs; and Harry Clarke funding the print production - that book never cost Vernon a copper coin to release. Moreover, no financial renumeration was asked from Vernon, nor indeed given. As an aside, whilst the content for the books was being prepared. Vernon always had free board and lodgings during his lengthy stays in England. I'm not sure of any agreement on the subsequent works - but again, with Lewis Ganson being a freehearted, charitable English Gentleman, I'd be very surprised if he accepted anything whatsoever at any stage from Dai Vernon - despite the many countless hours that writing and then typing these (classic) books must have taken. The fact that Vernon clearly didn't bother correcting or amending any of Lewis's instructions; even after the hard work from others had been completed; just sums up my perception of Dai Vernon - in other words, a bit of a work-shy ponce. I adore Dai Vernon's Magic - I have done for many decades. However, as an individual, he has always appeared to be the type of character in life that I've always had very little time for - and tried to avoid like the plague.
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 334 Posts
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Your take is certainly as valid as mine is, Barry.
You make some good points. If I was guessing though, I'd guess that - at the time of the books publication, N-Strippers were so far underground it's quite likely that Vernon, a guy who certainly tipped more than a few things in his lifetime, choose specifically not to tip the details of N-Strippers to Ganson. But theres's absolutely no doubt that Vernon himself was completely versed in the concepts and principals of N-strippers, and indeed had N-Stripper decks in his possession, some of which (if I recall correctly) even showed up at auction 6 or 7 years ago. Anyway, I do believe Ganson was effectively clueless as to what N-Strippers were, and how they were used - and that his ignorance of the details of N-Strippers becomes terribly apparent when you read the actual "Bathroom Stripper" text. I also believe that Vernon was more than happy to let Ganson write what he wanted to write, while knowing full well that the description (as Ganson wrote it, and as you note it was likely proof read by Vernon) would never lead anybody to an understanding of N-Strippers, how they were made, and how they were used.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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Posted: Nov 15, 2024 06:50 am 
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